mart Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 [quote Where I am coming from is this I pay tax and NI so this means I get everything that's going culture. That is NOT what we pay this stuff for. Travel concessions etc is not what we pay NI and tax for. And there is no automatic entitlement to pretty much anything just because you have paid in which seems to escape the majority of the populace. Yes we pay in but getting back always has conditions attached. Yes Ann, indeed they do, and that "getting back" are crumbs from the tables of the ruling classes are they not. Except there is debate and there is nonsense. As Andy pointed out the notion of compensation is based on you having paid for a ticket. If you got a free ticket/concession then imo you should not be compensated disabled or not.Agree with ann says. Your argument is weak imo. One would be (potentially) compensated because of the hassle & inconvenience endured-(in our case in point, invariably caused by railtrack incompetence). That is my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion sir, that is what the forum is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Bynnol Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 One would be (potentially) compensated because of the hassle & inconvenience endured-(in our case in point, invariably caused by railtrack incompetence). That is my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion sir, that is what the forum is about. Anyone can write to the TOC explaining " the hassle & inconvenience endured", they might choose to make a one off voucher or credit available. Unhappy: Anyone can have a legal letter written to the TOC to gain compensation for "the hassle & inconvenience endured". Unhappy: Anyone can take the TOC to court to gain compensation for "the hassle & inconvenience endured". Many TOCs operate a "Delay-Repay" scheme which repays those who have paid for travel tickets when there is a delay. These schemes by nature do not often work locally eg a Barnsley -Sheffield delay/cancellation would mean a delay of less than the minimum time as you would catch the next train. If the train is cancelled you can still claim the cost of the ticket(s). In exceptional circumstances TOCs will also pay for alternative travel/accommodation which would apply to disabled people who booked help in advance or the alternative station is not accessible eg Thorne North eastbound. The TOC will get their money back from Network Rail- (Railtrack ended years ago) To make claiming back easier: Keep your ticket. If no ticket get a note from the guard. Get a claim form if applicable from the guard or station. Photograph the departure/arrival board, Screen grab the "Realtime" journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I acknowledge that claiming circumstances are somewhat limited for paying rail passengers. I do not perceive a problem with the calculation for a disabled person. Calculation would be whatever the ticket would have cost (if purchased). Compensation would simply be a cheque not a voucher (for the reasons you highlight). But what would you use as the value of the ticket? The cheapest ticket that would have been valid at that time? Or the actual amount that SYPTE pay the train operator for carrying the disabled passenger? (For buses I believe this is £1.40 per journey). The thing is, as the disabled pass is only valid for local journeys which are not expensive, I think you'd be creating a whole system which would cost more to administer than the benefits it would bring. Do any of the forum's disabled members feel they are being discriminated against over this issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I acknowledge that claiming circumstances are somewhat limited for paying rail passengers. I do not perceive a problem with the calculation for a disabled person. Calculation would be whatever the ticket would have cost (if purchased). Compensation would simply be a cheque not a voucher (for the reasons you highlight). How would you prevent people from claiming for journeys they never intended to take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 But what would you use as the value of the ticket? The cheapest ticket that would have been valid at that time? Or the actual amount that SYPTE pay the train operator for carrying the disabled passenger? (For buses I believe this is £1.40 per journey). The thing is, as the disabled pass is only valid for local journeys which are not expensive, I think you'd be creating a whole system which would cost more to administer than the benefits it would bring. Do any of the forum's disabled members feel they are being discriminated against over this issue? Thank you for the interest and your articulate contribution. It would seem a bit unjust towards the operator to expect them to pay out an amount based on a sum that had not been paid. It would be fairer for all concerned for the compensation to be based on the what SYPTE pay the operator. I acknowledge your point about low cost local journeys that I will address in my example. I see it as an amended system to the compensation scheme already in place for paying passengers, not a whole new system. Once set up and running, I would not envisage problems with admin or costs, but parity and greater opportunity for disabled travellers (please read on). One example: Imagine the Green party won many seats at the next local election, and part of their manifesto for local authorities was to provide concessionary disabled person travel in every town/area of every council seat they acquired. In addition to this (vote winning policy) they also announce that they are expanding the boundaries of rail travel for all disabled people. Yes there would be costs for the local authorities, but think of the potential for the disabled if they could take jobs and travel free beyond the existing boundaries (Dore boundary in that direction) or beyond Thorn?? (in that direction). Maybe expanding the travel boundaries in other areas too. Think of the potential. There are currently 1.3 million disabled people in the UK who are available for and want to work Source: http://www.dlf.org.uk/content/key-facts How would you prevent people from claiming for journeys they never intended to take? (Hypothetically) A ticket would be issued on the actual train on presenting the travel pass to avoid fraud of trying to claim when not having travelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 (Hypothetically) A ticket would be issued on the actual train on presenting the travel pass to avoid fraud of trying to claim when not having travelled. What about when trains are cancelled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anywebsite Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 What about when trains are cancelled? They could get one at the ticket office, staff on platform or whatever. Maybe you'd get a few getting free tickets for every train to try to use it as a lottery, but I'm not sure it'd be a huge problem, especially if the trains run on time more often. How do they manage with other pass holders & season ticket holders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Thank you for the interest and your articulate contribution. It would seem a bit unjust towards the operator to expect them to pay out an amount based on a sum that had not been paid. It would be fairer for all concerned for the compensation to be based on the what SYPTE pay the operator. I acknowledge your point about low cost local journeys that I will address in my example. I see it as an amended system to the compensation scheme already in place for paying passengers, not a whole new system. Once set up and running, I would not envisage problems with admin or costs, but parity and greater opportunity for disabled travellers (please read on). A couple of questions: 1) Wouldn't it be fairer for all concerned for the compensation to go back to SYPTE (since they paid for the travel in the first place)? They could use these funds to help to continue to offer the disabled free train travel. It should be remembered that this concession is not legally required, SYPTE recently withdrew it and it's only been reinstated thanks to some hard campaigning. I would be fearful that if the train companies have to start compensating for delays on these passes, they will increase the cost per journey that they charge SYPTE to offset the costs associated with the refunds. 2) Does anyone actually bother to claim compensation on local journeys anyway given the compensation would be a couple of quid? It hardly seems worth filling in the form to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 If the basis for your right to compensation is based on income tax contributions, then surely the people who have bought tickets make the same contributions and so they should be entitled to compensation for their ticket plus the same contribution that you think disabled people ought to get for their contribution? I think most people would prefer the trains to run correctly rather than going deeper into compensation culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 A couple of questions: 1) Wouldn't it be fairer for all concerned for the compensation to go back to SYPTE (since they paid for the travel in the first place)? They could use these funds to help to continue to offer the disabled free train travel. It should be remembered that this concession is not legally required, SYPTE recently withdrew it and it's only been reinstated thanks to some hard campaigning. If Network rail keep getting charged for (their part in) the delays, the delays may become less frequent? SYPTE withdrew it because the local authority were going to cease funding it. I would be fearful that if the train companies have to start compensating for delays on these passes, they will increase the cost per journey that they charge SYPTE to offset the costs associated with the refunds. If it works that way, then presumably they will have to increase the cost per journey for paying passengers also, due to the compensation they receive? Don’t costs like these get recovered from Network rail though? 2) Does anyone actually bother to claim compensation on local journeys anyway given the compensation would be a couple of quid? It hardly seems worth filling in the form to me. Probably not many, but there is a principal at stake. If the basis for your right to compensation is based on income tax contributions, then surely the people who have bought tickets make the same contributions and so they should be entitled to compensation for their ticket plus the same contribution that you think disabled people ought to get for their contribution? I think most people would prefer the trains to run correctly rather than going deeper into compensation culture. I certainly would. Penalties (against Network rail) may help to achieve this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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