RootsBooster Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Sorry, but... "because you certainly give the impression you're one of those atheists who think they have." ...sure sounds like she believes that there are atheists who think they have (...higher academic qualifications then everyone with a religious belief, or a superior intelligence then them all...), or else how could she liken someone to them? Do you know of any? (Even if I believed I had a superior intelligence to Tim, his academic qualifications put me out of the running.) Synonimising belief with knowledge now? Tut-tut, Red Even if that were her belief, would it be an unreasonable one? That there some atheists who think they are more quualified etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricicle Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I ask anyone who is religious out there to turn on the news and answer the question. I dont care what religion. WHERE IS GOD? No one has seen a god in modern times. Where is he or she or it? My opinion is God isnt real in the fact you can touch or see him but i firmly believe he is in the hearts of anyone who wants to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Even if that were her belief, would it be an unreasonable one? That there some atheists who think they are more quualified etc? Really, all she was doing was trying to attack me rather than rebut what I said - and that says more about her than me. But I'm no more qualified or intelligent than the next person; I've just got a brain and I try to use it - and voice my opinions, rightly or wrongly, like everyone should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwhine Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Synonimising belief with knowledge now? Tut-tut, Red No. (...based on the fact that I think she only believes that such atheists exist but doesn't actually know of any. That's why I asked for examples. If no examples are forthcoming, then what was claimed capriciously (without evidence) can be dismissed in the same capricious manner. To make a successful factual claim that such atheists exist requires at least two examples. Even if that were her belief, would it be an unreasonable one? People can believe whatever they like, but if they want to convince others, then they should 'ante up'. That there some atheists who think they are more quualified etc? As I said, I know of none. Can you name one? Earlier in the thread, she accused me of being a dogmatic atheist. I blew that fallacy out of the water and she hasn't yet got back to me on the matter. Not that I'm looking for an apology, of course. Here... Many people fluctuate between belief and non-belief at different stages in life, not everybody is as strong an atheist and as dogmatic as you are. Show me overwhelming evidence of the existence of god and I'll cease to be an atheist on the spot. That's how dogmatic I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Really, all she was doing was trying to attack me rather than rebut what I said - and that says more about her than me. But I'm no more qualified or intelligent than the next person; I've just got a brain and I try to use it - and voice my opinions, rightly or wrongly, like everyone should. Oh, totally, it was an ad-hominem in rhetorical question form. If Redwhine wants to pull her on it though, its best to do it without resorting to the assumptions that theists are so often known for in these discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwhine Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 My opinion is God isht real in the fact you can touch or see him but i firmly believe he is in the hearts of anyone who wants to believe. The fact is heart is a muscle which pumps blood. It contains blood. Blood and muscle. No god. God does exist in every human being, though; in the part of the brain that deals with imagination! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 No. (...based on the fact that I think she only believes that such atheists exist but doesn't actually know of any. That's why I asked for examples. If no examples are forthcoming, then what was claimed capriciously (without evidence) can be dismissed in the same capricious manner. To make a successful factual claim that such atheists exist requires at least two examples. She didn't make any claims. You accused her of "knowing" then came back with "believing". People can believe whatever they like, but if they want to convince others, then they should 'ante up'.What has she tried to convince us of? As I said, I know of none. Can you name one?Off the top of my head I can't name any, but I have certainly come across a couple in discussions who have pulled the appeal to authority, with an aire of arrogance. Earlier in the thread, she accused me of being a dogmatic atheist. I blew that fallacy out of the water and she hasn't yet got back to me on the matter. Not that I'm looking for an apology, of course. Here... Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I say what I think Janie - just like you or anyone else. If I come across that way then I apologise Edit: Just to add, I don't think I'm anymore intelligent than you or the next person. I just enjoy these sort of discussions. When I'm wrong about something, I expect others, atheist or theist, to point it out - or at least discuss what I've said so I can learn from it. Really, all she was doing was trying to attack me rather than rebut what I said - and that says more about her than me. But I'm no more qualified or intelligent than the next person; I've just got a brain and I try to use it - and voice my opinions, rightly or wrongly, like everyone should.You don't need to. In retrospect I realise I shouldn't have responded in that manner without commenting on those views you expressed, so i'm the one needing to apologise. You see, similar comments to yours relating to the "ancestral baggage" and so on have been posted on other threads and I've challenged them. I don't believe our ancestors were ignorant, in fact in many respects they were wiser and more intelligent then present generations. Throughout the centuries there have always been people who shared the same characteristics as people in modern times- curious, questioning, analytical, studious, sceptical etc. Think of the great creations and discoveries they made, the contributions to science, developing the way for further experiments without the use of todays modern technologies. So when you speak of their insecurities, I'm not quite sure what you mean, they were human, so they will naturally have had some insecurities, just like people today do, whether they are atheist or theist. ---------- Post added 09-09-2014 at 19:12 ---------- Synonimising belief with knowledge now? Tut-tut, Red Even if that were her belief, would it be an unreasonable one? That there some atheists who think they are more quualified etc? It isn't unreasonable, they're mostly the ones I've come across on the internet though, rather then face to face. Earlier in the thread, she accused me of being a dogmatic atheist. I blew that fallacy out of the water and she hasn't yet got back to me on the matter.Not that I'm looking for an apology of, course. .. Good, because you're not getting one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janlizzy Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Janie ,of course you get all sorts on the net,some are highly intelligent but some are far from that.It is something you cannot escape from unless you do not use the net.This fact is not restricted to Sheffield forum or theists and atheists.People will always stick to what they think,only the smart ones change views when faced with the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 You don't need to. In retrospect I realise I shouldn't have responded in that manner without commenting on those views you expressed, so i'm the one needing to apologise. You see, similar comments to yours relating to the "ancestral baggage" and so on have been posted on other threads and I've challenged them. I don't believe our ancestors were ignorant, in fact in many respects they were wiser and more intelligent then present generations. Janie, by ancestral baggage, I mean errors - flawed premises, mistakes, erroneous beliefs, and systems derived from those beliefs - that have been passed on from one generation to the next. They're often taken for granted as true despite evidence not being in their favour. Astrology is an example - so is religion. The modern myth that humans only use 10% of their brain is - or will be another. Don't confuse ignorance with insult and don't confuse it with lacking intelligence. Our ancestors were very intelligent but far more ignorant than what we are today. We have a far greater understanding of the world and the universe than they could have dreamt of; they just lacked the tools and the accumulated knowledge we have today. So when you speak of their insecurities, I'm not quite sure what you mean, they were human, so they will naturally have had some insecurities, just like people today do, whether they are atheist or theist. Yes, and those very human insecurities, shaped religion and god belief. Death of loved ones, suffering, fear of disease, others, paranoia, bias, ignorance(even just not knowing what tomorrow will bring) all played their part in the development of gods and religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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