Michael_W Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Don't particularly disagree with you and you are entitled to your view which has the merit of being thought out unlike some other royalists. However, I would disagree with a couple of points. Firstly, no one should command unearned respect, respect is something that has to be earned. I have known a number of ex soldiers in my time and believe me, respecting officers is not an automatic given. Respecting the rank would be more accurate. As it happens, despite being a republican I have respect for the Queen. She earned that respect by the fact that she has carried out what she sees as her duty in exemplary fashion. The fact that I believe it is a ridiculous anachronistic institution that should have no place in a modern society has no bearing on the fact that she has impressed me by her actions. I have to take issue with 'unify behind in times of conflict' , my father served as a volunteer throughout WW2 his elder brother served in the navy throughout WW1. Both of them were vehement anti royalists. To quote my father they fought for their family, their friends and their country in that order, and Kings and Queens played no part in their decision. Royalty is in fact divisive, whilst I would have no problem swearing an oath of allegiance to a country I will not do so to a fallible human being who has no more worth than I have. ---------- Post added 06-08-2014 at 10:08 ---------- A bit of advice, stop assuming that you can 'read' peoples emotions by viewing their posts. Anger is not something that I have ever felt when corresponding on this forum. In fact it is usually the exact opposite, amusement. And it is crystal clear from your replies that you do not understand what is being said to you. Now, explain precisely how I am confusing the two terms. Your the one making assumptions so why don't you tell me what I don't understand, go on just for a bit of clarity Oh and make it snappy I'm off to work in a bit ! Let me explain this, you believe we are all intrinsically equal .... I agree. You believe the Monarchy to have hereditary privilege and yet at the same time they are intrinsically equal .... I agree. So you have a problem with hereditary privilege which is not exclusive to the monarchy, or you just have an issue with the monarchy being the monarchy .... hey no problem that's your opinion and your entitled to it, just don't think that because some of us don't mind the monarchy that we are all subservient and feel we are beneath them, that's just a state of mind blinded by staunch republicanism IMHO ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Your the one making assumptions so why don't you tell me what I don't understand, go on just for a bit of clarity Oh and make it snappy I'm off to work in a bit ! You don't apparently understand how to use logic in a debate for starters. I stated that I believe we are all intrinsically equal and that no one should have deference shown to them simply because they were born into a particular family. How simple is that to understand? So what is your problem with understanding it? And what kind of job starts at 11 am ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_W Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 You don't apparently understand how to use logic in a debate for starters. I stated that I believe we are all intrinsically equal and that no one should have deference shown to them simply because they were born into a particular family. How simple is that to understand? So what is your problem with understanding it? And what kind of job starts at 11 am ? Logic, irony ..... jeez, with regards my job mind your own business, I work shifts at a large Sheffield manufacturing company .... see ya later ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Let me explain this, you believe we are all intrinsically equal .... I agree. You believe the Monarchy to have hereditary privilege and yet at the same time they are intrinsically equal .... I agree. So you have a problem with hereditary privilege which is not exclusive to the monarchy, or you just have an issue with the monarchy being the monarchy .... hey no problem that's your opinion and your entitled to it, just don't think that because some of us don't mind the monarchy that we are all subservient and feel we are beneath them, that's just a state of mind blinded by staunch republicanism IMHO ! Now you have explained that it's clear that you are not in fact a monarchist. You are a reactionary who doesn't like the idea of change. You believe in the status quo, fair enough you're entitled to your view but make no mistake you are not a royalist in the true meaning of the word. You see they do believe that they are 'born to reign over us'. What other hereditary privilege requires subservience other than monarchy and some archaic political systems such as North Korea? Yes I'm against them also. On the other hand I have no real problem with inherited wealth provided it was obtained legally. ---------- Post added 06-08-2014 at 10:52 ---------- Logic, irony ..... jeez, with regards my job mind your own business, I work shifts at a large Sheffield manufacturing company .... see ya later ! Can you really not see why I regard you as illogical? 'Mind your own business' then you go and tell me what you do! Anyway have a good shift and take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Why did you even start this thread anyway? The clue is in the thread title " Rembering World War One", where's the Queen?" Even some of the most ardent Republicans would have considered it inappropriate to use the centenary commemoration day in honour of those who died in WW1, as a good opportunity to have an angry rant about the present Monarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelle-82 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 http://www.royal.gov.uk I invite anyone to visit the above website - this website will tell you how and when the first head of state came about, it will show you how many centuries the Royal Family have been doing good and bad (depending on which King or Queen was in ruling) for our people and country. You may not agree with having a head of state in this modern age, but to wipe out something that is so steeped in our past would be a real shame. The Royal Family are a figure head, they have no real power and haven't since 16th Century! That is what parliament is for - democracy. The Royal Family are just part of our culture and I for one am very proud of to have them. They are also more beneficial to our economy than if we didn't have them. It isn't about being inferior just because we have a head of state! I need not say no more than this - Knowledge is a tool, without understanding and knowledge you will always be inferior.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 All service men and women swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen(or King) whether they support the monarchy or not. This along with disregarding political differences demonstrates how the monarchy can be a unifying force in times of conflict. Many members of the Royal family have served in the armed forces in wartime,including the present Queen, and in other conflicts. Some have been killed It is the concept and social status of the institution that is important and which the members of the Royal family have to embody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 All service men and women swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen(or King) whether they support the monarchy or not. This along with disregarding political differences demonstrates how the monarchy can be a unifying force in times of conflict. Many members of the Royal family have served in the armed forces in wartime,including the present Queen, and in other conflicts. Some have been killed It is the concept and social status of the institution that is important and which the members of the Royal family have to embody. We will have to disagree on this one. To swear an oath to your country cannot in anyway be regarded as being divisive. The country belongs to all of us and hopefully we all hold it in some regard. Forcing people to swear an oath to an institution that they may well disagree with in order to allow them to take up a particular position is wrong in my opinion. The Armed Forces and Police should all swear allegiance to the country and the citizens of the country. There is a potential for major problems with the current situation, what happens if a complete right wing ego maniac, or a weak and easily manipulated person inherits the throne? What would have happened if Prince Andrew had inherited the crown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelle-82 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 we will have to disagree on this one. To swear an oath to your country cannot in anyway be regarded as being divisive. The country belongs to all of us and hopefully we all hold it in some regard. Forcing people to swear an oath to an institution that they may well disagree with in order to allow them to take up a particular position is wrong in my opinion. The armed forces and police should all swear allegiance to the country and the citizens of the country. There is a potential for major problems with the current situation, what happens if a complete right wing ego maniac, or a weak and easily manipulated person inherits the throne? What would have happened if prince andrew had inherited the crown? the royal family have no power!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 the royal family have no power!! If you believe that you are mistaken. Why does the elected Prime Minister visit the unelected Monarch every Tuesday whilst parliament is sitting in order to 'brief' them? Are they both wasting each others time? Can the monarch not simply read the papers and watch televised debates like the rest of us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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