flamingjimmy Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Effectively, yes. Its called TRADITION We've abandoned lots of traditions that don't suit society anymore. Monarchy should be another one, tradition is not a reason to keep something going. ---------- Post added 06-08-2014 at 14:16 ---------- Swearing an oath to the Queen makes the person accountable to a specific person(obviously through their agencies) Swearing an oath to a country and it's citizens would in effect make that person accountable to the countries representatives ie politicians at the time. What would happen if a different political party gained power with vastly differing views ? Would the armed forces etc continually swear allegiance to differing parties. It would be possible for a political party to effectively have its own army, navy, air force, marines, police, prison service etc. It is this potential that makes the oath to the monarch so important.. Yeah because that's totally how republics turn out. Everone knows that the USA has 2 armies for it's two political parties, and France has loads of armies for each political party. Oh wait no that hasn't happened and is stupid. Here's the US oath: I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. (also, they don't even have to say the 'so help me god' part, thankfully) If only we had a decent written constitution we could swear to as well. When the republic comes we'll get one hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelle-82 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 We've abandoned lots of traditions that don't suit society anymore. Monarchy should be another one, tradition is not a reason to keep something going. ---------- Post added 06-08-2014 at 14:16 ---------- Yeah because that's totally how republics turn out. Everone knows that the USA has 2 armies for it's two political parties, and France has loads of armies for each political party. Oh wait no that hasn't happened and is stupid. Let's get rid of Christmas then! Christianity has been abandoned by many in society and there are more and more atheists so what are we celebrating Christmas for? Is it because it's tradition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Let's get rid of Christmas then! Christianity has been abandoned by many in society and there are more and more atheists so what are we celebrating Christmas for? Is it because it's tradition? Well obviously Christmas isn't really Christ-mass anymore for most people, it's fun family day and present giving day. I don't celebrate Christmas just because its traditional. I celebrate it because it's good to have a period of the year set aside for family time and I enjoy giving and receiving presents. How would you feel if someone came on and argued that women shouldn't work or go to university and should stay home and raise families on the grounds of tradition? I hope you'd rightfully tell them to bugger off and that it's a terrible argument. I certainly would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 We've abandoned lots of traditions that don't suit society anymore. Monarchy should be another one, tradition is not a reason to keep something going. ---------- Post added 06-08-2014 at 14:16 ---------- Yeah because that's totally how republics turn out. Everone knows that the USA has 2 armies for it's two political parties, and France has loads of armies for each political party. Oh wait no that hasn't happened and is stupid. Here's the US oath: I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. (also, they don't even have to say the 'so help me god' part, thankfully) If only we had a decent written constitution we could swear to as well. When the republic comes we'll get one hopefully. Did you forget Adolf Hitler and his oath of allegiance ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelle-82 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Well obviously Christmas isn't really Christ-mass anymore for most people, it's fun family day and present giving day. I don't celebrate Christmas just because its traditional. I celebrate it because it's good to have a period of the year set aside for family time and I enjoy giving and receiving presents. I enjoy watching Royal Weddings and other Royal Events! You don't.. You enjoy Christmas and all the pretence that comes with it - I don't.. We can have a glorified Sunday Roast whenever we want? Christmas has lost all it's value and worth and no longer fits into society as it was meant to be, this is my opinion of Christmas the same as it is the opinion of yours about the Royal Family. They are both traditional and both a non-necessity. But it feels nice to celebrate something doesn't it.... By the way why do you feel you need to set aside the 25th December to spoil your family? you can do that everyday/week/month if you wanted to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Did you forget Adolf Hitler and his oath of allegiance ? Ok, first you make an absurd argument about how having an oath that wasn't to the Queen would end up with us having two opposing armies. When it's pointed out to you how stupid that argument is you then decide to up the ante by saying we'd become like Nazi Germany? Seriously? that's where you're going with this argument? Go on then, I'd love to see you try and do that, flesh out your argument a bit will you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 As is evident by the way this thread is now going ---------- Post added 06-08-2014 at 13:24 ---------- Nothing, the crown is a powerless figurehead. You need to be a damn sight more worried about the loons who make PM, again another elite bunch. So you should be railing against THEM as well ---------- Post added 06-08-2014 at 13:26 ---------- Effectively, yes. Its called TRADITION So in order to maintain tradition the Prime Minister turns up every Tuesday morning at Buckingham Palace to hold a meeting which is not particularly publicised? Neither of them having anything better to do with their time, and not being able to use email. Changing the guard at Buckingham Palace is tradition, sounding the last post on armistice day is tradition, the Prime Minister 'briefing' the Queen is a blatant intrusion upon the democratic process by an unelected person. As for being worried about politicians, I am, I'm particularly worried about their ongoing erosion of our liberties many of which date back centuries. Not much keeping with tradition going on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthenekred Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Effectively, yes. Its called TRADITION It was once traditional to burn non-believers of cloud fairies, or for being a fairy, or believing in other fairies. Maybe you're biased? Maybe rather than tradition the monarchy has the divine right to power? Capitalising it just makes you look a bit..well you guess the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Did you forget Adolf Hitler and his oath of allegiance ? Did you forget Godwin's law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Ok, first you make an absurd argument about how having an oath that wasn't to the Queen would end up with us having two opposing armies. When it's pointed out to you how stupid that argument is you then decide to up the ante by saying we'd become like Nazi Germany? Seriously? that's where you're going with this argument? Go on then, I'd love to see you try and do that, flesh out your argument a bit will you. Unfortunately you are misreading what I wrote. My point was that if political parties changed would the armed forces etc. have to swear an oath to the incoming party. Please try to understand what is written instead of trying to ridicule the writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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