flamingjimmy Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 However from my experience, people of faith (especially like Teeny) seem to understand this and are able to reconcile it with their faith.Perhaps that has something to do with this: I am not one to dwell deep in to that side[why god kills/allows the deaths of so many children]Because dwelling on things like that for too long has a tendency to make one an atheist, or at least lose your faith in Abraham's god, because there literally is no way that fits in with an all loving all powerful god and even you kinda know it. Whereas the one without faith just sees sorrow and suffering-unable to make sense of it all...other than to hate 'god'.None of us hate 'god', no more than I hate the bad guys in Star Wars or any other work of fiction. The only reason we even refer to him in discussions with you is to try and get you to engage with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altus Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I am not one to dwell deep in to that side- I too see the sad end and situation of children across the world (being a father of 3 it is even harder). However from my experience, people of faith (especially like Teeny) seem to understand this and are able to reconcile it with their faith. Religious people never do seem to dwell deep into that side because it brings up awkward questions about their all powerful yet supposedly loving god. Whereas the one without faith just sees sorrow and suffering-unable to make sense of it all...other than to hate 'god'. People without faith aren't unable to make sense of it all - they just accept that things that happen don't have a bigger purpose. For an atheist, a botfly larva growing in a child's eye just does so as part of it's reproductive cycle, however unfortunate it is for the child. There is no issue of why does it do that? It's only religious people who believe a god created all creatures and so must have designed the botfly to reproduce in that way who have to consider why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdom Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Contamination by infected bodily fluids in several ways. This is one of the reasons caution is always taken around bleeding wounds and injuries. ---------- Post added 18-11-2015 at 23:44 ---------- There's a book you might want to read up on... Aids is transmitted by ignoring the bibles moral code and cleanliness guidelines and through blood transfusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Aids is transmitted by ignoring the bibles moral code and cleanliness guidelines and through blood transfusions. Oh right, so an industrial, sports or other such accident is "ignoring the Bible"? Does the Bible say "contain yourself in a bubble at all times to avoid any chance of contact with contaminated fluids"? Are you saying that AIDS is a punishment from your God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdom Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 No but the vast majority of cases are avoidable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) I wasn't strawmanning Lottie. That's EXACTLY what you did, you claimed she'd said something she hadn't and then based your argument on that fiction. I would have thought you understood what strawman meant by now... https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman Nor did I suggest everyone living forever- I never claimed you did it was more a point of asking 'why wouldn't we get sick/ill' - as there does seem to be a pattern where atheists expect this world to be some kind of utopia.Where exactly do you see this pattern, do you have any examples? I suspect that you're seeing people hypothesising on the illogicity of a (hypothetical) God creating (let's not beat about the bush, the Bible says he made absolutely everything, with no exceptions) many awful, agonising and torturous ways for people to slowly decline and eventually die... and you're confusing this with them thinking everything should be rainbows and butterflies forever. Because if we all never go sick, we would never know what it is like to be well and healthy. We take things for granted. Have you never had a friend or family member say 'I am lucky to be alive' or come across people who have said 'it puts things in perspective' (alluding to their time of illness, which may have been serious). I had pneumonia earlier this year- never had it before. It left me powerless, and made me appreciate when things are better health wise. I've had pneumonia, to the point where I nearly died. I lost a friend very recently to a very long and drawn out death, he wasn't the first either. If I found out that somebody had caused these things to make me appreciate life I would be disgusted. As a father, would you consider it morally acceptable (or more applicably, 'divine') to torture your children to make them appreciate something? I would hope not. I am not one to dwell deep in to that side- I too see the sad end and situation of children across the world (being a father of 3 it is even harder). However from my experience, people of faith (especially like Teeny) seem to understand this and are able to reconcile it with their faith. Whereas the one without faith just sees sorrow and suffering-unable to make sense of it all...other than to hate 'god'. Again, I think you are seeing people pointing out the huge flaws in your beliefs and somehow seeing them as something else, possibly to reassure yourself about your beliefs. Please tell me how someone without belief in a god manages to hate said god? It's like you saying "I hate unicorns!" (assuming you don't believe in unicorns). ---------- Post added 20-11-2015 at 23:29 ---------- No but the vast majority of cases are avoidable So if they aren't a punishment, why did your god create them? What purpose were they for? I take it that every case that isn't 'sin' is just collateral damage then. ---------- Post added 20-11-2015 at 23:40 ---------- None of us hate 'god', no more than I hate the bad guys in Star Wars or any other work of fiction. The only reason we even refer to him in discussions with you is to try and get you to engage with us. I quite like the bad guys in Star Wars. Edited November 20, 2015 by RootsBooster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lottiecass Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 So you are saying that the religious do not get aids,ebola etc.Kingdom, you are in denial,the gods aren't picky who gets infected,old,young black ,white,gay, straight,religious and atheist.So common sense should tell you that gods are not the loving beings the religious makes them out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwhine Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Nor did I suggest everyone living forever- it was more a point of asking 'why wouldn't we get sick/ill' - as there does seem to be a pattern where atheists expect this world to be some kind of utopia. The only thing that atheists have in common is a lack of belief in god, God or gods. I suppose that it is possible that some atheists "expect this world to be some kind of utopia", but they would have to have never read a history book nor seen a TV news programme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Couldn't get back yesterday but will try engage on what was said in some posts. RB/FJ: What I meant by not dwelling on the matter in question was not so I end up asking 'why, why and why'. Rather it's pondering over reality and trying to make sense of it. That we are here- fact. I rather work out WHY we are here and not HOW things should be because we are here. RB: you mentioned about falling ill with pneumonia and having seen friends die. I am sure many share your experiences in that (myself included). In one way that could alter someones 'faith' if they had it in the first place or strengthen another persons (if they understood what life entails). When I say some atheists hate 'god' it's because even though you deny the existence - you deep down only have this to turn your frustration and anger against. No offence but from my experience, I find that some fail to understand the meaning of texts they like to quote- there may be layers of meaning behind something and its why you have experts and scholars who can explain. Perhaps that is enough to satisfy one person over the other-when they fully understand something. ---------- Post added 21-11-2015 at 09:13 ---------- Perhaps that has something to do with this:Because dwelling on things like that for too long has a tendency to make one an atheist, or at least lose your faith in Abraham's god, because there literally is no way that fits in with an all loving all powerful god and even you kinda know it. None of us hate 'god', no more than I hate the bad guys in Star Wars or any other work of fiction. The only reason we even refer to him in discussions with you is to try and get you to engage with us. The problem is, this definition only seems to fit around the Christian idea of God. So hence why I think some have trouble reconciling with what they see (in the real world) and what they think (or used to think/believe). Again, going down this fiction line of thinking- do you honestly deep down believe anyone in the REAL world spends their time thinking if Zeus exists or Han Solo is a real guy fighting Star Wars up there somewhere? Millions believe in some divine being or powerful force- you call it nature and some call it God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwhine Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 When I say some atheists hate 'god' it's because even though you deny the existence - you deep down only have this to turn your frustration and anger against. Wrong on so many levels. The only people who can possibly hate something are those who believe that it exists. The one thing that all atheists have in common is that they lack belief in the existence of god, God and gods. Therefore, no atheist can hate god. They are unable to "turn" their "frustration and anger against" god. Religions and the religious are another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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