bantycock Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Ungrateful sod wants to go back to Africa and get infected again - see if it really was god or just the medicine??? My thoughts exactly should take a few with him as we Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Couldn't get back yesterday but will try engage on what was said in some posts. RB/FJ: What I meant by not dwelling on the matter in question was not so I end up asking 'why, why and why'. ...because surely you must realise that there is no satisfactory answer to that 'why' within your philosophy, that's exactly my point. That we are here- fact. I rather work out WHY we are here and not HOW things should be because we are here.Not just us buddy, flesh eating bacteria, horrible parasites and whatnot are also here, you have no answer to that WHY, so of course you'd rather ask a different one. The problem is, this definition only seems to fit around the Christian idea of God.Nope. [Quran 2:115] To God belongs the east and the west; wherever you go there will be the presence of God. God is Omnipresent, Omniscient. (Wasea) [Quran 3:26]Our god: possessor of all sovereignty. You grant sovereignty to whomever You choose, You remove sovereignty from whomever You choose. You grant dignity to whomever You choose, and commit to humiliation whomever You choose. In Your hand are all provisions. You are Omnipotent. (Kadeer) [Quran 6:18] He is Supreme over His creatures. He is the Most Wise, the Cognizant. (Al-Qaher) A god who is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient, who created all things and is supreme over all his creatures.... should really have no problem stopping parasites from burrowing into the eyes of his children. Oh wait it means something totally different and I couldn't possibly understand it unless I speak Arabic right? Again, going down this fiction line of thinking- do you honestly deep down believe anyone in the REAL world spends their time thinking if Zeus exists or Han Solo is a real guy fighting Star Wars up there somewhere?A little bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellinais But thats' not the point at all, you've completely missed my point I think. I'm saying that to me your god is a fictional character, your book the Quran is a fictional book, and the books it was based on are also fictional books. The fact that I refer to god in discussions with adherents to your foolish sects does not mean I believe in him anymore than mention of Luke Skywalker when discussing the new star wars film means I believe in him. Millions believe in some divine being or powerful force- you call it nature and some call it God.Millions are wrong. They have to be, for they believe in mutually exclusive things. Edited November 21, 2015 by flamingjimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 ...because surely you must realise that there is no satisfactory answer to that 'why' within your philosophy, that's exactly my point. That doesn't stop one from searching- and how can you state that there is no satisfactory answer? I have been in your position before and know from my own experience and journey that answers can be found. That doesn;'t mean I need to know the wisdom behind something. Not just us buddy, flesh eating bacteria, horrible parasites and whatnot are also here, you have no answer to that WHY, so of course you'd rather ask a different one. I didn't say I did. [Quran 2:115] To God belongs the east and the west; wherever you go there will be the presence of God. God is Omnipresent, Omniscient. (Wasea) [Quran 3:26]Our god: possessor of all sovereignty. You grant sovereignty to whomever You choose, You remove sovereignty from whomever You choose. You grant dignity to whomever You choose, and commit to humiliation whomever You choose. In Your hand are all provisions. You are Omnipotent. (Kadeer) [Quran 6:18] He is Supreme over His creatures. He is the Most Wise, the Cognizant. (Al-Qaher) A god who is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient, who created all things and is supreme over all his creatures.... should really have no problem stopping parasites from burrowing into the eyes of his children. Oh wait it means something totally different and I couldn't possibly understand it unless I speak Arabic right? You failed on that part- I did not even go in to any religious book or bring it up. I mentioned that this 'loving god' concept fits with Christianity and when those who are/were Christians, struggle to put it together- it can/does lead to other routes. Also to say that this 'god' if he is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient..he can stop this and that- that is a false premise. Why do you think he should? Why do you think this 'god' needs to do what you want- is that not what the underlying issue is amongst atheists- they want god to be like how they perceive it. It sounds like a carlsberg slogan: If atheists did God, he would probably be the best God in the world On one hand you accept this life is one life (as I do) and then you want it to be perfect- no sickness, no disease, no earthquakes etc.. May be that is what the problem is- you want this world (if controlled by a higher being) to be 100% pitch perfect. Its no good asking it should be because 'he' can make it so- so because it isn't then this god is not perfect, not all powerful. Sorry friend, but that is a false premise you start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lottiecass Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 That's a foolish answer,these gods are potrayed as caring,loving etc,so if I was dumb enough to think likewise I would be in church.The only thing you have posted in the last effort that is true is that one life so live it.After billions of deaths not one shred of evidence for an afterlife,regardless of all the fraud mediums,not one word from the holiest of the holy when dead.Have you actually read a bible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 That's a foolish answer,these gods are potrayed as caring,loving etc,so if I was dumb enough to think likewise I would be in church.The only thing you have posted in the last effort that is true is that one life so live it.After billions of deaths not one shred of evidence for an afterlife,regardless of all the fraud mediums,not one word from the holiest of the holy when dead.Have you actually read a bible? Parents are supposed to be caring and loving..not always the case though is it. You have just demonstrated the very basis of my argument. The typical atheist approach and that is to lead via emotive arguments. Sorry but that doesn't cut it. If you fail to see the the picture and just want to pick out the parts you don't like- we arn't going to get anywhere. Same goes with FJ quoting verses- what does it prove? It goes beyond that. I may dip in out of this thread- however a forum has never been a place to discuss deep matters like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantycock Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 What a load of rubbish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lottiecass Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Parents are supposed to be caring and loving..not always the case though is it. You have just demonstrated the very basis of my argument. The typical atheist approach and that is to lead via emotive arguments. Sorry but that doesn't cut it. If you fail to see the the picture and just want to pick out the parts you don't like- we arn't going to get anywhere. Same goes with FJ quoting verses- what does it prove? It goes beyond that. I may dip in out of this thread- however a forum has never been a place to discuss deep matters like this. Its not that deep,its just plain common sense.You are not told that if you are not a loving parent you face eternal torment.There's plenty of bad stuff in the holy books but you haven't seen any obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) I mentioned that this 'loving god' concept fits with Christianity and when those who are/were Christians, struggle to put it together- it can/does lead to other routes. Is God willing to prevent horrible parasites going into the eyes of children, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able to prevent horrible parasites going into the eyes of children, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing to prevent horrible parasites going into the eyes of children? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing to prevent horrible parasites going into the eyes of children? Then why call him God? So your defense appears to be: "my god is not all loving". Cool good to hear one of you admit it. ---------- Post added 22-11-2015 at 00:20 ---------- Same goes with FJ quoting verses- what does it prove? I thought that was obvious. What it proves, is that according to your holy book your god is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. Which leaves you with the unsolvable problem of 'evil', which to avoid the entirely separate and distracting argument about what that word means exactly I've chosen to represent by entirely natural horrible parasites that go into the eyes of children and make them blind. Logically, it follows, that he is able to prevent horrible parasites going into the eyes of children. Seeing as he doesn't, as the little poem I adapted demonstrates you have two choices: Either your god is malevolent, or not as powerful as you claim. There is no third option. Edited November 22, 2015 by flamingjimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningman1 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Is God willing to prevent horrible parasites going into the eyes of children, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able to prevent horrible parasites going into the eyes of children, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing to prevent horrible parasites going into the eyes of children? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing to prevent horrible parasites going into the eyes of children? Then why call him God? So your defense appears to be: "my god is not all loving". Cool good to hear one of you admit it. ---------- Post added 22-11-2015 at 00:20 ---------- I thought that was obvious. What it proves, is that according to your holy book your god is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. Which leaves you with the unsolvable problem of 'evil', which to avoid the entirely separate and distracting argument about what that word means exactly I've chosen to represent by entirely natural horrible parasites that go into the eyes of children and make them blind. Logically, it follows, that he is able to prevent horrible parasites going into the eyes of children. Seeing as he doesn't, as the little poem I adapted demonstrates you have two choices: Either your god is malevolent, or not as powerful as you claim. There is no third option. There is a third option. Have you ever considered that perhaps God loves the parasites as much as he loves humans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I think a loving god could be cruel. A loving man could push a child to its death, if it saved a train carrying 300 children from plunging into a ravine. ---------- Post added 22-11-2015 at 00:55 ---------- Is God willing to prevent horrible parasites going into the eyes of children, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able to prevent horrible parasites going into the eyes of children, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing to prevent horrible parasites going into the eyes of children? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing to prevent horrible parasites going into the eyes of children? Then why call him God? So your defense appears to be: "my god is not all loving". Cool good to hear one of you admit it. Interesting that you seem to accept the existence of Evil. I look forward to the physics of Evil some time soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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