Vouchers instead of change on Sheffield busses

[alchemist]

Yes a few pound coins is your idea of vast quantities of change. Bit dramatic. How do you cope.

 

I can see how that would be useful if the fare were multiples of a pound. How many are there?

[1978]

9 pages of argument about getting change on a bus! It's enough to confirm to non bus users that they should keep well away. Walk, cycle, or use a car, anything to avoid the potential conflict that is likely to ensue by trying to board a bus without the right fare.

 

I said earlier that the sooner we do away with all cash collection on buses the better. All this discussion of bus contracts makes no difference to how many £1, 50p or 2p coins need to be held by the driver while cash payment remains an option.

 

However, by moving more and more passengers onto the various types of saver tickets, paid for by internet or mobile apps, less cash will be taken - and even less change will be available. Until all cash is banished from buses the short term probability is that the need to give vouchers will grow, rather than diminish.

[Fudbeer]

Geez this thread still going lol.

 

In practice giving vouchers is rare never seen it happen and I travel by bus most days.

[mrbrit]

Don't know if anyone has pointed this out. But there is no legal requirement to give change anyways.

[Tommo68]

You are making the assumption that all people who wish to have a bus have access to the means of getting the correct change. That is often not the case if you are travelling eary in the morning or late at night; if you are traveling from a rural area or an area which is not close to the shops.

 

People may not have the mobility to get somewhere they can get change, or they simply just might not be able to reach somewhere.

 

Some people do not have the money to buy something they don't need in order to break a note.

 

Other major cities manage to provide change, I don't understand why Sheffield should be different, London did before the Oyster card. The fact that they're going ahead with this without giving people the option of using prepaid flexible credit just makes Sheffield look backwards and these companies look greedy.

 

echo all of that.

Lowest value note you can get out of an ATM is a tenner.

Where is everyone supposed to magically get change from when they need it at short notice?

 

I did not bother getting into it properly when I was told; but some banks, barclays is one, won't accept more than a very small amount in coins and then you have count it into little bags for them. Not much encouragement to save which is an odd concept for a bank. It's from people saving that they make most of their money.

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[Zamo]

What are you on about? The 1985 transport act deregulated bus services outside of London, but in London the buses stayed regulated. TFL (Transport for London) was then formed in 2000 out of the 'Greater London Authority act 1999' that allowed a unified strategy for all their tranport infrastructure. There is no need for TFL to enter into quality contracts with other operators down there, as TFL is still a recognised government body (the clue to that is in their website adress at tfl.gov.uk) and in turn, they hold a lot more power and have more options than a PTE would and this has never been contested by the operators. TFL have no competition, operators that wish to run a service down there adheer to TFLs regulations else they do not get a licence to operate there, end of. Hence TFL can command a unified pricing structure irrespective of operator, which is another reason why their public transport works so well. Westminster has always legistlated so that London reaps the benefits, and doesn't care about the detriment of everyone else.

 

What I am on about is that Quality Contracts would effectively give PTE's the same powers as TfL. The contractors would compete for franchises but the PTE would decided routes, fares, timetables, payment methods they would have to accept etc... just like in London.

 

All bus companies hate Quality Contracts as they have handed more powers to the PTEs, and in turn more power to the PTEs means less power for the franchise holders of the different routes. This is why Voluntary Agreements came about (Sheffield was one of the first that came up with them) as the operators got together in order to avoid Quality Contracts. The operators didn't want to be forced to do things with specific penalties if they fell short in anything written into the contracts. Voluntary Agreements being voluntary by nature means that they're agreeing to work in partnership with others for the benefit of the customers but that they can then share blame if things go wrong. PTEs don't want to force Quality Contracts because they don't want to alienate the franchinse holders and have the added workload of policing the quality contracts. Seperately, if a Quality Contract is broken, they then don't want to have to find another company to step in if a franchise is taken away - there have to be penalties for breach of contract else by their very nature, they become pointless and expensive for no gain. To that end, Quality Contracts have become a means of threat that a PTE can claim to the operators to keep them in line.

 

Of course the operators hate Quality Contracts but so what? Voluntary partnerships simply aren't effective because the 'threat' of Quality Contracts is perceived as minimal/non-existent. As you have pointed out, PTE's have always capitulated to operator pressure and never used the power.

 

You'll not get any PTE to push through any more Quality Contracts for some time yet, as nobody wants to be the next to jump and have to sort out how in practice it will all work in practice. TAS pushed a hard argument to West Yorkshire PTE in 2010. Whilst West Yorkshire voted against Quality contracts, Tyne and Wear threatened them last year to become the first to impliment them and then subsequently sparked a bus war which they didn't want which then suddenly resulted in an operator making major changes to axe the less profitable routes prior to the Quality Contract coming into force in 2015. A lot of other areas are looking to this as an example of some of the problems that could occur if they then try and impliment Quality Contracts. It's also telling that in the years since Quality Contracts were legistlated for in the transport act 2000, by 2008 no PTE/LTA had taken them up. (ref: policy context point 4)

 

If what you say about West Yorkshire is correct (still to be officially announced) then I agree that there is little prospect of any PTE introducing Quality Contracts soon.

 

You are also right that no public sector body ever wants to jump first and adopt a new model. There is so much fear of failure in the public sector that it stifles innovation. As a result we end up with the sharing of 'best practice', which effectively means copying the 'least worse practice' from elsewhere at that moment in time e.g. voluntary bus partnerships (not even any real join-up with train operators).

 

Deregulation has simply not worked and as a result we see London steaming ahead with new technology that improves the customer experience whilst the northern PTE's and operators introduce Green Shield Stamp style schemes instead of giving change. There is no point blaming the government... they gave the PTE's the power (Quality Contracts) to do something about it and they have bottled it.

[No User Name]

echo all of that.

Lowest value note you can get out of an ATM is a tenner.

 

Incorrect.

 

Oh, and this thread has nowt to do with quality contracts and only you two care about it. Just saying, like.

[Andy C]

 

Deregulation has simply not worked and as a result we see London steaming ahead with new technology that improves the customer experience whilst the northern PTE's and operators introduce Green Shield Stamp style schemes instead of giving change. There is no point blaming the government... they gave the PTE's the power (Quality Contracts) to do something about it and they have bottled it.

 

Hmmm. In London they don't give change, they don't even accept cash. Not the most customer friendly move...

 

Anyway, quick different angle briefly, First are currently offering cheap weekly tickets at £9 to those that buy via their new m-ticketing app, offer ends 29th September, which co-incidentally is when Stagecoach Supertram start their offers including a £10 weekly tram pass, available to buy in advance online or from the conductor on board.

[Zamo]

Hmmm. In London they don't give change, they don't even accept cash. Not the most customer friendly move...

 

Anyway, quick different angle briefly, First are currently offering cheap weekly tickets at £9 to those that buy via their new m-ticketing app, offer ends 29th September, which co-incidentally is when Stagecoach Supertram start their offers including a £10 weekly tram pass, available to buy in advance online or from the conductor on board.

 

If those deals work for you the great. The problem is that it narrows your options with multiple operators and that fragments the network.

 

Anyway... I too can't believe this thread is still going. Who'd have thought public transport could provoke such interest and passion!!!

[999tigger]

Lowest value note you can get out of an ATM is a tenner.

 

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Wrong again Tommo. It depends on the machine. the lowest note you cna get will depend on the lowest note machines are stocked with. Some machines give £5 notes out.