dutch Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Sheffield is too small for oyster system. Besides it takes years for a system like that to develop and work properly. Sooner than that there will be a system you can pay by mobile phone, much easier and cheaper to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Bynnol Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Sheffield is too small for oyster system. Besides it takes years for a system like that to develop and work properly. Sooner than that there will be a system you can pay by mobile phone, much easier and cheaper to run. That is why more than 10 years ago South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive and West Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive started using Yorcard to act as managers of an ITSO system. This will allow an integrated ticketing system for all forms of public transport in the area. Oyster will not work outside London because there are many providers whereas London transport is still nationalized. Any company can set its own system up for payment but will not get government help unless ITSO compatible. That is proving difficult and as you say new technology might overtake it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheffbag Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I really do not see the problem. Even before we get to contactless ticketing you can have multiple touch points anywhere on the bus or the tram. Also at busy bus stops and all tram stops. The touch in/out records time and GPS, enough for Oyster but not for us as TfL runs all the buses at a point. That and the variety of individual tickets run by different companies complicates things. You load onto the card what you need/entitled to. Failing to touch out costs you the daily maximum. Failing to touch in can be observed by ticket inspectors and then checking the history of your smartcard and your card debited/cancelled accordingly. You view online or ask for a copy of your transactions. Annie - not going to get into a debate on here but here are my responses based on m y10 years of working in the smartcard business Multiple touch points - what's to stop people just "tapping off at the next stop and getting charged minimum fare. Once the conductor has checked your validity of a pass then you simply tap off at the next stop. - No fraud protection Failing to touch out costs daily minimum - what about the desire to provide best fare value over multiple period. Daily maximum is what was used on the original Yorcard trial which used a TOTO (touch in touch out system) and the result was people simply touched on knowing that for the rest of the day it was free travel so no need to touch out. This means any journey matching for reimbursement to the operators (who would want paying for the fares carried) is nigh on impossible unless you use a flat % of journeys calculation. One of the selling points of smart technology is that fares can be calculated more accurately and distributed more fairly (as in an smart multi operator pass). Failing to touch in observed by inspectors - on bus easy. On tram at busy times much harder. Problems in the SY (and others) area - ITSO. you evidently know a little of it so you will appreciate that trying to develop an ITSO system is difficult when you have multiple commercial partners all doing their own thing with no cross co-ordination. Classic example of this is rail vs bus. Bus uses certain codings to establish stops, Rail has decided to use different ones. Both ITSO compatible but neither inter-operable so West Yorkshire has to engineer a work around which shouldn't really be done. If SY ever introduces it on rail you will have the same situation. Unless you have a closed (both operator and boarding points) system TOTO doesn't work. London (I don't like using term Oyster as people take it as the be all and end all of smart ticketing, while it is great you cant use it outside of the oyster system) works because the train/tube network is gated for all sense and purposes so you cannot leave it without it knowing and the bus network operates on a flat fare system so no need to touch out and all the money goes to TfL regardless. Here in SY, WY, EY, Midlands, Liverpool, Newcastle or anywhere else trying to implement smart fare structures there are commercial and reconciliation difficulties. If you want to pm me to discuss the merits and difficulties of ITSO feel free but after working with it for so long I find the specification is one of the key things stopping it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah-Lacie Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I got offered a credit note as change for a £20 note when trying to buy a day saver last week. I had been to the cash machine, it gave me a £20, had nothing smaller but did offer the driver 80p in change if that helped. She would have only needed £10, £5 and £2 but insisted she had "no change" and I would have to either just walk or take a credit note. I was on the way to work so could do without walking or I'd be late, and I needed the change for a taxi home later. I then turned to the other passengers and asked if any of them had change for a £20 note and the driver seemed annoyed and shouted "wouldn't bother, none of them have got nowt either! you're gonna have to walk theres no bus for an hour" Then a lovely man stood up, took my £20 note, and swapped it for two £5 notes, a £10 note and about £4 in change that he insisted I could have, even though I tried to refuse it. How on Earth the driver knew how much money any of the passengers had is beyond me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Bynnol Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 .... Multiple touch points... Thank you for your inside knowledge and I take note of the issue regarding failure to pay and the difficulties of dealing with several operators. London commuters normally interchange between lines and modes whereas in Sheffield most journeys would be point to point. What we need is a smartcard or device that holds credit/purchases/entitlement which works on bus and tram. A non transferrable personal online version that can be checked and topped up is easily traced to its owner who would have to buy a premium version/ticket if withdrawn through misuse. Sadly SY has a large avoidance culture. Supertrams original ticketing failure due to poor legislation and Northerns' woeful revenue protection still being promoted by failure to challenge/prosecute. And since the timescale for smartcards is so long perhaps it is wise to look at the mobile phone or contactless debit cad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I think the oyster card is a wonderful system. I agree they should have it here as well. It would solve a lot of problems. Yes- although isn't it just a glorified "contactless" debit card? And we have those already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaLLPauL2009 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Only on Sheffield forum!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutch Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 My disability card did not work on the scanners at least 6 times this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodmally Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Yes- although isn't it just a glorified "contactless" debit card? And we have those already! I dont trust drivers to get to the bus stop on time so wont be trusting them with my debit card. At least with the oyster type card is that if something goes wrong you've not lost much money. ---------- Post added 10-02-2015 at 09:27 ---------- Sheffield is too small for oyster system. Besides it takes years for a system like that to develop and work properly. Sooner than that there will be a system you can pay by mobile phone, much easier and cheaper to run. Sheffield maybe but dont we opperate as a South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Authority with Rotherham, Barnsley and Doncaster. Surely South Yorkshire would be big enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 SYPTA has no buses, but it does deal with ticketing (OAP passes etc); so it ought to be the body introducing card-use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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