Mass shootings in America

[Thorpist]

According to the The Washington Post data shows approx 16 million people in the USA own the assault rifle style AR15.

 What credible reason would there be for private citizens owing such a weapon ?

The NRA call for teachers to be armed, I wonder what type of armaments they want them to have to protect the school with ?

The mind boggles at the reasoning of anyone who thinks they are necessary. I have no problem with anyone who wishes to fire a gun  , but surely joining a club  and learning to do it properly and competing in organised contests is the way to go.

[hackey lad]

11 hours ago, Padders said:

What you have to remember Guns saved America...

Thank heavens for the likes of Hop-A-Long- Cassidy, Tom Mix, The Lone Ranger, and John Wayne..

These guys beat them pesky injuns with their Bow and Arrow's.

Had guns never been invented, then Big Chief Sitting Bull would be President of the US of A.

Yee haa   😀

10 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

That would have been very fitting as he was a true born American who belonged there.

I won't go into what I think of the settlers treatment of the native Indian tribes

 

 

.

Agreed 

[trastrick]

Some genuine questions raised here about gun laws.

 

But the Big Question is why the Founding Fathers of the U.S. Constitution would incorporate the right to bear arms as The Second Amendment, (The First Amendment is Freedom of Speech)

 

They were determined to make democracy a permanent political system, something that was rare in history, with it's wars, revolutions, religious and Monarchist Dictators.

 

They enacted Freedom of Speech in the Press, and a "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

It was to prevent charlatan opportunists from being elected to power, by promising to loot the Treasury to buy votes, and once in power, to use the might of government, to keep themselves in power.

 

We've seen what happens when the Press abdicate their societal responsibility and collude with government to censor or refuse to disseminate legal speech.

 

With an armed citizenry (all citizens, not just some elite Pretorian Guards) they guarantee that the majority will prevail in any internal insurrection, and this was well tested in the Civil War against slavery.

 

It may well be tested again, in the near future.

 

 

[RJRB]

@trastrickThe theory sounds good but the reality is somewhat different.

What sort of arms should the citizenry have rights to .

From swords,revolvers and rifles to automatic weapons and combat weapons.

It sounds as though you expect a conflagration at some point and some kind of armed conflict between the Government and it’s forces against some local militia will not turn out well.

[The_DADDY]

16 minutes ago, RJRB said:

@trastrickThe theory sounds good but the reality is somewhat different.

What sort of arms should the citizenry have rights to .

From swords,revolvers and rifles to automatic weapons and combat weapons.

It sounds as though you expect a conflagration at some point and some kind of armed conflict between the Government and it’s forces against some local militia will not turn out well.

I'm pretty sure only semi automatic weapons are widely available in the states, not fully automatic. 

What do you mean by combat weapons?

[trastrick]

Just now, RJRB said:

@trastrickThe theory sounds good but the reality is somewhat different.

What sort of arms should the citizenry have rights to .

From swords,revolvers and rifles to automatic weapons and combat weapons.

It sounds as though you expect a conflagration at some point and some kind of armed conflict between the Government and it’s forces against some local militia will not turn out well.

I don't expect any armed rebellion anytime soon, but "the United States Constitution is the world's longest surviving written charter of government"..

 

From time to time it is bound to be tested, and has been by  Slave Owning Democrats in the Civil War, by assorted would be authoritarian, and religious dicks, Hitler, Hirohito. (Pearl Harbour) Mad Mullahs (9/11) and perhaps by the most dangerous of all, the Communist hoards who manage it by inciting anger and hate amongst the population they want to dominate. Divide and conquer is their game!

 

So I wouldn't be surprised at anything! What with another War in Europe, maybe it's  gut check time again?

 

As to the sort of arms available to the population in the U.S. This should be resolved by the usual democratic system, of proposals and votes. Let the majority decide.

 

Which is happening right now, as we speak.

Edited March 31, 2023 by trastrick

[RJRB]

1 hour ago, The_DADDY said:

I'm pretty sure only semi automatic weapons are widely available in the states, not fully automatic. 

What do you mean by combat weapons?

Semi automatic weapons are widely available and fully automatic if you can afford them and get through the checks.

That obviously only applies if you acquire one legally.

Not much difference if a bullet has your name on it.

Trastrick seemed to be making the point that the 2nd Ammendment was in place for citizens to keep a balance over Government.

Weaponry has much changed since this was enshrined in the 18th century,so for that balance to be credible the citizens would need similar arms to those available to the opposition.

Not a happy thought.

[trastrick]

On 30/03/2023 at 18:40, Organgrinder said:

That would have been very fitting as he was a true born American who belonged there.

I won't go into what I think of the settlers treatment of the native Indian tribes

 

 

.

You fell for the TV Lone Ranger "narrative". 

 

Indian tribes were a mainly a warrior culture. Constantly at war with each other, They practised all manner of atrocities against each other.

 

WIKI

 

"Male and female captives as well as teenage boys, would usually face death by ritual torture.[8][9] The torture had strong sacrificial overtones, usually to the sun.[10] Captives, especially warriors, were expected to show extreme self-control and composure during torture, singing "death songs", bragging of one's courage or deeds in battle, and otherwise showing defiance.[11] The torture was conducted publicly in the captors' village, and the entire population (including children) watched and participated.[12] Common torture techniques included burning the captive, which was done one hot coal at a time, rather than on firewood pyres; beatings with switches or sticks, jabs from sharp sticks as well as genital mutilation and flaying while still alive. Captives' fingernails were ripped out. Their fingers were broken, then twisted and yanked by children. Captives were made to eat pieces of their own flesh, and were scalped and skinned alive. Such was the fate of Jamestown Governor John Ratcliffe. The genitalia of male captives were the focus of considerable attention, culminating with the dissection of the genitals one slice at a time. To make the torture last longer, the Native Americans and the First Nations would revive captives with rest periods during which time they were given food and water. Tortures typically began on the lower limbs, then gradually spread to the arms, then the torso. The Native Americans and the First Nations spoke of "caressing" the captives gently at first, which meant that the initial tortures were designed to cause pain, but only minimal bodily harm. By these means, the execution of a captive, especially an adult male, could take several days and nights.[13]

 

How Comanche Indians butchered babies and roasted ...

Daily Mail

https://www.dailymail.co.uk › news › article-2396760

Aug 18, 2013 — The Comanche roasted captive American and Mexican soldiers to death over open fires. Others were castrated and scalped while alive. The most ...

 

"One by one, the children and young women were pegged out naked beside the camp fire,’ according to a contemporary account. ‘They were skinned, sliced, and horribly mutilated, and finally burned alive by vengeful women determined to wring the last shriek and convulsion from their agonised bodies. Matilda Lockhart’s six-year-old sister was among these unfortunates who died screaming under the high plains moon.’

Not only were the Comanche specialists in torture, they were also the most ferocious and successful warriors — indeed, they become known as ‘Lords of the Plains’.

They were as imperialist and genocidal as the white settlers who eventually vanquished them."

 

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, trastrick said:

You fell for the TV Lone Ranger "narrative". 

 

Indian tribes were a mainly a warrior culture. Constantly at war with each other, They practised all manner of atrocities against each other.

 

WIKI

 

"Male and female captives as well as teenage boys, would usually face death by ritual torture.[8][9] The torture had strong sacrificial overtones, usually to the sun.[10] Captives, especially warriors, were expected to show extreme self-control and composure during torture, singing "death songs", bragging of one's courage or deeds in battle, and otherwise showing defiance.[11] The torture was conducted publicly in the captors' village, and the entire population (including children) watched and participated.[12] Common torture techniques included burning the captive, which was done one hot coal at a time, rather than on firewood pyres; beatings with switches or sticks, jabs from sharp sticks as well as genital mutilation and flaying while still alive. Captives' fingernails were ripped out. Their fingers were broken, then twisted and yanked by children. Captives were made to eat pieces of their own flesh, and were scalped and skinned alive. Such was the fate of Jamestown Governor John Ratcliffe. The genitalia of male captives were the focus of considerable attention, culminating with the dissection of the genitals one slice at a time. To make the torture last longer, the Native Americans and the First Nations would revive captives with rest periods during which time they were given food and water. Tortures typically began on the lower limbs, then gradually spread to the arms, then the torso. The Native Americans and the First Nations spoke of "caressing" the captives gently at first, which meant that the initial tortures were designed to cause pain, but only minimal bodily harm. By these means, the execution of a captive, especially an adult male, could take several days and nights.[13]

 

How Comanche Indians butchered babies and roasted ...

Daily Mail

https://www.dailymail.co.uk › news › article-2396760

Aug 18, 2013 — The Comanche roasted captive American and Mexican soldiers to death over open fires. Others were castrated and scalped while alive. The most ...

 

"One by one, the children and young women were pegged out naked beside the camp fire,’ according to a contemporary account. ‘They were skinned, sliced, and horribly mutilated, and finally burned alive by vengeful women determined to wring the last shriek and convulsion from their agonised bodies. Matilda Lockhart’s six-year-old sister was among these unfortunates who died screaming under the high plains moon.’

Not only were the Comanche specialists in torture, they were also the most ferocious and successful warriors — indeed, they become known as ‘Lords of the Plains’.

They were as imperialist and genocidal as the white settlers who eventually vanquished them."

 

I am not talking about whether native American Indians were goodies or baddies.

I am talking about how the settlers murdered them for their lands and also wiped out millions of buffalo at the same time

 

It would seem that with you. the answer is always take what you want and it doesn't matter what happens to those who stand in your way

as you can always make up some tale to expose any faults and thereby lies your excuse for your actions.

Whatever the Indians or any other indigenous people have done, pales into insignificance against the acts of supposed civilised society.

Other people on this forum, can already see how you would be happy to see armed uprising in America.

Don't blame me for what your own words describe you as..  You are obviously a very nasty piece of work.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Organgrinder

[trastrick]

Just now, Organgrinder said:

I am not talking about whether native American Indians were goodies or baddies.

I am talking about how the settlers murdered them for their lands and also wiped out millions of buffalo at the same time

 

It would seem that with you. the answer is always take what you want and it doesn't matter what happens to those who stand in your way

as you can always make up some tale to expose any faults and thereby lies your excuse for your actions.

Whatever the Indians or any other indigenous people have done, pales into insignificance against the acts of supposed civilised society.

Other people on this forum, can already see how you would be happy to see armed uprising in America.

Don't blame me for what your own words describe you as..  You are obviously a very nasty piece of work.

 

 

 

 

 

Stay safe!

 

Don't let your hate rot you from the insides, too! 

 

In the meantime go find yourself another pen pal!