Air strikes against Islamic State/ISIS..

[Zamo]

But we are not repeating the same mistake, this time we going at the request of the Iraqi government to help them keep control of their country. Its an entirely different situation.

 

The invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq didn't fail because they didn't have the blessing on the governments. They failed because the West does not understand the people, the culture or the realities of fighting in the region.

 

And it isn't just the West. The USSR went to war in Afghanistan too. They had plenty of planes bombing, tanks and hundreds of thousands of troops on the ground. They keep at it for 9 years before cutting their loses and giving up. How can the West have more success with just bombing from the air? How can they do better when the territory that ISIS hold in Syria can't even be attacked? How can they do better when they can't even bomb the towns and villages where ISIS are hiding because they can't afford civilian causalities? It is fantasy. Either go do it properly with boots on ground and prepare for a long stay (taking the spoils of war to compensate) or leave well alone.

[firemanbob]

The invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq didn't fail because they didn't have the blessing on the governments. They failed because the West does not understand the people, the culture or the realities of fighting in the region.

 

And it isn't just the West. The USSR went to war in Afghanistan too. They had plenty of planes bombing, tanks and hundreds of thousands of troops on the ground. They keep at it for 9 years before cutting their loses and giving up. How can the West have more success with just bombing from the air? How can they do better when the territory that ISIS hold in Syria can't even be attacked? How can they do better when they can't even bomb the towns and villages where ISIS are hiding because they can't afford civilian causalities? It is fantasy. Either go do it properly with boots on ground and prepare for a long stay (taking the spoils of war to compensate) or leave well alone.

 

Our aim isn't to defeat them, our aim is to make it easier for local forces to defeat them.

[alternageek]

Mod Note:

 

When linking to videos, please post a description and why its relevant to the discussion at hand.

 

Thank you.

[roosterboost]

Our aim isn't to defeat them, our aim is to make it easier for local forces to defeat them.

 

In Syria it is probably safe to suggest both of the major protagonists on the ground are pretty much terrorists. In Iraq it is more clear cut.

[Zamo]

Our aim isn't to defeat them, our aim is to make it easier for local forces to defeat them.

 

The Iraq armed forces functioned under a dictator like Saddam because fear and brutality is a strong motivator and results in just the right sort of nasty and ambitious people coming through the ranks to maintain control. That is all gone and all that is left is a shambolic armed forces that do not want to fight and leadership that is too weak to compel them to. The fear-factor is gone, as we can plainly see. If you think that they will save the day with a little air support then your confidence is misplaced.

 

We need to leave alone or do it properly i.e. boots on ground, take over and take the spoils. Half measures (more like a 20th measure) will not work and will simply incur costs whilst directing trouble our way.

[firemanbob]

The Iraq armed forces functioned under a dictator like Saddam because fear and brutality is a strong motivator and results in just the right sort of nasty and ambitious people coming through the ranks to maintain control. That is all gone and all that is left is a shambolic armed forces that do not want to fight and leadership that is too weak to compel them to. The fear-factor is gone, as we can plainly see. If you think that they will save the day with a little air support then your confidence is misplaced.

 

We need to leave alone or do it properly i.e. boots on ground, take over and take the spoils. Half measures (more like a 20th measure) will not work and will simply incur costs whilst directing trouble our way.

 

According to these headlines it appears to be working for now.

 

Iraqi Kurdish forces have captured a strategic border crossing from Islamic State fighters in northern Iraq, as the militants were pounded by US-led air strikes.

 

 

 

Kurdish peshmerga forces backed by American fighter jets recaptured Iraq's largest dam from the Islamic State on Monday, in what US President Barack Obama called a "major step forward" in the fight against the jihadists.

 

Kurdish Peshmerga forces have regained control of the border town of Rabia, in northern Iraq.

 

Iran’s elite Guards fighting in Iraq to push back ISIS.

 

Iranian President Hassan Rowhani pledged his government’s support to help counter the threat posed by ISIS if the Iraqi government requested it.

 

---------- Post added 05-10-2014 at 09:15 ----------

 

 

or do it properly i.e. boots on ground, take over and take the spoils.

 

And that would alienate every Muslims on the planet.

Edited October 5, 2014 by firemanbob

[Zamo]

According to these headlines it appears to be working for now.

 

Our strategy of interference (armed and otherwise) has caused the whole damn mess and increased extremism... how exactly is it 'working'?

 

And that would alienate every Muslims on the planet.

 

Then leave alone.

[mafya]

The Iraq armed forces functioned under a dictator like Saddam because fear and brutality is a strong motivator and results in just the right sort of nasty and ambitious people coming through the ranks to maintain control. That is all gone and all that is left is a shambolic armed forces that do not want to fight and leadership that is too weak to compel them to. The fear-factor is gone, as we can plainly see. If you think that they will save the day with a little air support then your confidence is misplaced.

 

We need to leave alone or do it properly i.e. boots on ground, take over and take the spoils. Half measures (more like a 20th measure) will not work and will simply incur costs whilst directing trouble our way.

 

My bold=

That won't be happening, the days of the british empire conquering other countries is history, we saw what happened in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Go to war with the intention of taking the spoils (oil) and you will find that people who are against IS will end up supporting them against the invaders.

[erebus]

Every time the BRITISH go into Afghanistan we get throw out, taking with us the dead and the wooded, and if one fails to learn from History it just repeats itself. Hitler did not learn from Napoleon's disaster, we cannot learn from our own repeated history.

 

We invaded Afghanistan, Russia was invited, just like they were invited into Ukraine. The USA had a war against Russia in Afghanistan using the locals, training them, creating the Al-Queda. Frankenstein and his many monsters now are here, there everywhere trained by the CIA, financed by the CIA and friends, and Weaponised by the CIA and friends which allows the US President to offer to save the world from its own creation BRILLIANT!

 

One little penny that seems to always be stuck in the machine is WAR. Its not about who is good or bad, its about profit, sell to all sides, and just look at the share price hike since the bombing of IS, formally IISIS. Where is the money coming from? Your pockets, and every fantastic missile cost a million or more, so war is sweet for those in the circle while the chickens cluck outside, about having their eggs stolen.

Edited October 5, 2014 by erebus

[firemanbob]

Our strategy of interference (armed and otherwise) has caused the whole damn mess and increased extremism... how exactly is it 'working'?

 

 

 

Then leave alone.

 

You are conflating two separate issues, what happened in the past can't be changed and ignoring IS won't change the past or make the world a safer place.