Air strikes against Islamic State/ISIS..

[charmer]

Has anyone considered talking to these people? Is what they are doing any worse than what us and the French did in Palestine? Is forcing the creation of a Muslim state any worse than forcing the creation of a Jewish state?

 

I'm pretty sure the have killed less people than we did in Palestine, though I am posting this claim before verifying it.

[tinfoilhat]

Has anyone considered talking to these people? Is what they are doing any worse than what us and the French did in Palestine? Is forcing the creation of a Muslim state any worse than forcing the creation of a Jewish state?

 

I'm pretty sure the have killed less people than we did in Palestine, though I am posting this claim before verifying it.

 

I think a few have tried to talk to them.

"Actually, I'd rather be a Christian thanks"

"Ah. That might a problem. Chop his head off lads"

[Zamo]

It does if IS wins and takes total control of those countries, and we after all helping Muslims, doing nothing will also mean many more refugees fleeing those countries.

 

ISIS can't reach us and nor can the refugees unless we bring them here... so leave them where they are.

 

The fact remains that every time we interfere in the Middle East we make things worse for them and for us (except perhaps some very rich people who can exploit the opportunities that come from the chaos). Albert Einstein once defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results... continuation of a proven-to-fail strategy is insane.

 

If we are going to interfere then do it properly by taking over and taking the spoils for the nation. Let's not pay for a diversion (and suffer the subsequent consequences) whilst the elite of this world exploit the situation to sneak the spoils out of the backdoor (as happened during the first invasion of Iraq). We are being taken for mugs.

[firemanbob]

ISIS can't reach us and nor can the refugees unless we bring them here... so leave them where they are.

 

 

Off cause they can reach us unless we stop all international flights into the UK and stop all imports and immigrant coming into the UK. And if they manage to win they might even acquire WMD which they wouldn't hesitate to use.

 

---------- Post added 30-09-2014 at 09:33 ----------

 

The fact remains that every time we interfere in the Middle East we make things worse for them and for us (except perhaps some very rich people who can exploit the opportunities that come from the chaos). Albert Einstein once defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results... continuation of a proven-to-fail strategy is insane.

 

If we are going to interfere then do it properly by taking over and taking the spoils for the nation. Let's not pay for a diversion (and suffer the subsequent consequences) whilst the elite of this world exploit the situation to sneak the spoils out of the backdoor (as happened during the first invasion of Iraq). We are being taken for mugs.

 

How is our situation any worse than it was? how many Islamist terrorist attacks have taken place on the West before and after the Iraq, Afghanistan wars?

Edited September 30, 2014 by firemanbob

[charmer]

I think a few have tried to talk to them.

"Actually, I'd rather be a Christian thanks"

"Ah. That might a problem. Chop his head off lads"

 

It was either leave your home or die when we were doing this 60 years ago. Why not try to engage them politically?

[Zamo]

Off cause they can reach us unless we stop all international flights into the UK and stop all imports and immigrant coming into the UK. And if they manage to win they might even acquire WMD which they wouldn't hesitate to use.

 

I'm not military expert but I know that ISIS are not going to fly over here on jumbo jets... they would just be shot down.

 

But you are still ignoring the 'form'. We've tried the strategy you advocate time and time again in the Middle East and time and time again it fails. When do we learn the lesson? There are no half measures - either invade properly or leave well alone.

[linderman]

Has anyone considered talking to these people? Is what they are doing any worse than what us and the French did in Palestine? Is forcing the creation of a Muslim state any worse than forcing the creation of a Jewish state?

 

 

Where is this Jewish state of which you speak?

[firemanbob]

I'm not military expert but I know that ISIS are not going to fly over here on jumbo jets... they would just be shot down.

 

But you are still ignoring the 'form'. We've tried the strategy you advocate time and time again in the Middle East and time and time again it fails. When do we learn the lesson? There are no half measures - either invade properly or leave well alone.

 

If that was possible why didn't they shoot down the 9/11 terrorists, could it be because they didn't know at the time who had control of the planes or what their intentions were.

 

Some times the only possible result in a game of chess is stalemate, which means you can keep them in check indefinitely but you can never win, but if you decide to stop playing you can still loose.

[linderman]

I'm not military expert but I know that ISIS are not going to fly over here on jumbo jets... they would just be shot down.

 

But you are still ignoring the 'form'. We've tried the strategy you advocate time and time again in the Middle East and time and time again it fails. When do we learn the lesson? There are no half measures - either invade properly or leave well alone.

 

I'm thinking for a suicide seaker being shot down and taking 4-500 infidels with you would be considered a good result. They say that ISIS have around 30,000 fighters at the moment. How many jumbo jets could they get shot down?

 

How do you know the stratergy has failed. If the west had sat on its hands they could be at the doors of Istanbul by now for all we know.

Edited September 30, 2014 by linderman

[Zamo]

Off cause they can reach us unless we stop all international flights into the UK and stop all imports and immigrant coming into the UK. And if they manage to win they might even acquire WMD which they wouldn't hesitate to use.

 

We cannot prevent the odd one from getting through and committing acts of terrorism (which bombing will not stop wither) but they do not pose any threat to national security. They cannot invade. There will be no gun battles on the streets.

 

How is our situation any worse than it was? how many Islamist terrorist attacks have taken place on the West before and after the Iraq, Afghanistan wars?

 

Before the invasions we did not have a problem with home-grown Muslim terrorism, we had not been attacked and there had been no killings. Since the wars that has all changed. Not only are we under constant threat but we are also spending hundreds of millions each year trying to contain the threat. And it is not just money we are hemorrhaging but hard-won freedoms and rights - we are spied on by the State, suffer Section 44 abuses by the police, have Control Orders that allow us to be detained without trial or conviction and have courts being held behind closed doors. We are worse off to the tune of many hundreds of British service personnel. We are worse off because we now have (growing) racial/cultural tensions in this country. We are worse off by approximately £30 billion that was spent fighting the wars.

 

And did the Afghans and Iraqi's get democracy, security and prosperity following our intervention? No.

 

OK, your turn. What did we gain?