Zamo Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 The same comment is valid as regards any other non-EU agreements, e.g. the European Patent Convention and, still more supranationally, WTO agreements such as TRIPS (simple examples, there are dozens and dozens more). Like it or loathe it, the UK does not live in a planetary vacuum and international relations, be they European (within the 'EU' sense of the word) or well beyond, require codification in one form or another, under which disputes will arise and be arbitrated (whether by the ECHR, or one of the very many international tribunals/courts based in The Hague), so all members keep playing from substantially the same hymn sheet. The alternative, obviously enough, is quasi-anarchy. Can you explain a bit more about the sort of quasi-anarchy that would ensue if the UK decides to not abide by HR laws that protect foreign criminals and extremists from deportation? I'm pretty sure it would not make trading with our European partners any more complicated or damage trading relations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Can you explain a bit more about the sort of quasi-anarchy that would ensue if the UK decides to not abide by HR laws that protect foreign criminals and extremists from deportation? I'm pretty sure it would not make trading with our European partners any more complicated or damage trading relations.Nice bit of disingenuousness, there, Zamo. Might wash with other posters (I hope not), doesn't with me. Try again, please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotusflower Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Do you think it would be right for some one to be extradited and imprisoned in a strict Islamic country for saying something blasphemous here in this country? I can hardly wait for his response to this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Nice bit of disingenuousness, there, Zamo. Might wash with other posters (I hope not), doesn't with me. Try again, please How is it disingenuous? The Tories are talking about withdrawing from the ECHR and creating a British Bill of Rights. If we did that then how would it damage our trading relations? How is it going to cause quasi-anarchy if different members of an economic union apply slightly different interpretations on human rights? Are fellow Member States going to seek the UK's expulsion from the club if we, for example, deport an extremist to Jordan because we interpret a 'right to a family life' as not stopping his family from following him there if they want to? It is a genuine question... what is the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 How is it disingenuous? By taking the expression outside its context, as you did "Quasi-anarchy" is the alternative to the "codification of international relations" (of which the UK's membership of the ECHR is a tiny aspect). My post is clear, but you sought to build a strawman by misrepresenting my post with taking the expression out of its context. It is a genuine question... what is the problem?Is it now? That would make you either obtuse or disingenuous...so which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firemanbob Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Are you serious? That example is so far removed from the subject we were talking about as to be ludicrous. Let me repeat myself as you don't seem to understand a very simple point. The crime that they were accused of would not have resulted in a jail sentence under British Law. Do you understand that now? The crime of chopping someones head off in an Islamic state run by IS would not result in a jail sentence under their Law, so it must follow that you don't think they should be punished using British law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotusflower Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 The crime of chopping someones head off in an Islamic state run by IS would not result in a jail sentence under their Law, so it must follow that you don't think they should be punished using British law. Clutching at straws aren't you! Have you any thoughts on the news today that Cameron's surveillance watchdog has ordered police forces across the country to disclose full details about their use of anti-terror laws to spy on journalists? Do you still have total trust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 By taking the expression outside its context, as you did "Quasi-anarchy" is the alternative to the "codification of international relations" (of which the UK's membership of the ECHR is a tiny aspect). My post is clear, but you sought to build a strawman by misrepresenting my post with taking the expression out of its context. Is it now? That would make you either obtuse or disingenuous...so which is it? So would withdrawing from the ECHR and introducing a British Bill of Rights cause quasi-anarchy or not? And if it did how would it manifest, what would happen, what would the consequences be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotusflower Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 So would withdrawing from the ECHR and introducing a British Bill of Rights cause quasi-anarchy or not? And if it did how would it manifest, what would happen, what would the consequences be? These goalposts are getting pretty hard to keep up with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgksheff Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Within this thread it is critical to refer either to The Court or The Convention as 'ECHR' can refer to either. Edited October 8, 2014 by cgksheff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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