Trident or NHS?

[Cyclone]

Trident didn't stop Argentina invading the Falklands, it didn't even stop terrorists blowing up our underground system. They currently aren't deterring ISIS or all the other loopy groups. Wars are happening all around us. Ukraine nearly erupted a few months ago.

It was never supposed to do those things and nobody ever claimed it could.

 

It might have helped to prevent a pre-emptive nuclear attack from Soviet Russia though... Although like most negatives, it's impossible to prove.

 

It's less nuclear weapons we need in this age, not more or newer ones.

True, but we do still need a deterrent until some point at which unilateral disarmament has been achieved, and trident is very close to it's Won't Be Any Use date.

 

Trident would also never act as a deterrent against the religious loonies that are currently sabre rattling against the West because they are so mad and delluded that the threat of their own death and destruction is of little consequence to them, just a minor obstacle before paradise.

 

True, but it might give Putin pause.

 

---------- Post added 14-10-2014 at 15:12 ----------

 

Most of those are internal fights/civil wars within nations.

 

If the nuclear deterrent is the reason we've had no major wars across Europe between various countries, then it's done it's job.

 

Would we have had World War 3 without the nuclear deterrent? - It's impossible to say, but the fact it's now 70 years since the last major war suggests it may have had some impact.

 

Regards

 

Doom

 

Russia invading Ukraine is an internal conflict?

 

---------- Post added 14-10-2014 at 15:13 ----------

 

We are all hoping it stays like that, but even if it didn't I wouldn't want my government to be responsible for causing nuclear destruction of the planet we live on. Which is what would happen, so why not just get rid of all the nuclear weapons, why not be the first?

 

It is like two kids in the school ground with their fists raised but not wanting to be the first to punch, turn your back on the other kid and walk away is what I was taught.

 

When the punch to the back of the head is a nuclear strike death blow the stakes are somewhat higher...

[alchemist]

When planning against further threats it's always good to think about tomorrows enemy. China and Russia are only going to continue to challenge the Wests domination in one way or another, so having a minimal nuclear deterrent in the future may well be desirable. Also there is no getting way from the fact that we could not afford to deter Russia or China with conventional weapons, so nuclear weapons allow us to do it on the cheap.

 

If having nukes is stopping russia invading us, can I ask whats stopping them invading Norway, Sweden, Finland etc?

 

After all as you say, they are obviously desperate to invade someone!

 

And look at China, they are going to come all the way round the world to invade us, missing out much better targets on the way!!!

[L00b]

Which is what would happen, so why not just get rid of all the nuclear weapons, why not be the first?

Because in the land of the blindly conventional, he who is one-nuke up is king.

 

Not sure if Sun-Tzu or Jesus said that

[truman]

If having nukes is stopping russia invading us, can I ask whats stopping them invading Norway, Sweden, Finland etc?

 

After all as you say, they are obviously desperate to invade someone!

 

And look at China, they are going to come all the way round the world to invade us, missing out much better targets on the way!!!

 

Why would they need to invade when they could nuke us out of existence from the other side of the world?

[JFKvsNixon]

If having nukes is stopping russia invading us, can I ask whats stopping them invading Norway, Sweden, Finland etc?

 

After all as you say, they are obviously desperate to invade someone!

 

And look at China, they are going to come all the way round the world to invade us, missing out much better targets on the way!!!

 

When did I claim that Trident stopped Russia invading us, or anyone for that matter?

[alchemist]

In my back garden I have a large tree, its a swine to look after and dumps tons of leaves all over the lawn every year.

 

However I cant get rid of it because I have noticed that my garden has never yet been invaded by elephants and so the tree is obviously an excellent elephant deterrant

 

---------- Post added 14-10-2014 at 15:38 ----------

 

Why would they need to invade when they could nuke us out of existence from the other side of the world?

 

Or indeed any other country. Or they coud nuke ireland and let the fallout take the UK out. What good our "deterrant" then?

[tinfoilhat]

Does dropping our nuclear capability send out the wrong signals economically as well as politically on the world stage? Does it say we are no longer at the top table with the likes of America Russia and even Pakistan? Do we then not warrant a place on the security council?

[truman]

In my back garden I have a large tree, its a swine to look after and dumps tons of leaves all over the lawn every year.

 

However I cant get rid of it because I have noticed that my garden has never yet been invaded by elephants and so the tree is obviously an excellent elephant deterrant

 

---------- Post added 14-10-2014 at 15:38 ----------

 

 

Or indeed any other country. Or they coud nuke ireland and let the fallout take the UK out. What good our "deterrant" then?

 

I suspect we'd see that coming and lob some back....and I suspect everyone else knows this and so wouldn't start in the first place....

[JFKvsNixon]

In my back garden I have a large tree, its a swine to look after and dumps tons of leaves all over the lawn every year.

 

However I cant get rid of it because I have noticed that my garden has never yet been invaded by elephants and so the tree is obviously an excellent elephant deterrant

 

 

Are you seriously suggesting that nuclear weapons wasn't an issue between rival superpowers?

 

Do you think that the Americans would have tolerated Cuba being communist or would have the USSR tolerated Berlin being under the sway of the West without the threat of nuclear destruction?

 

---------- Post added 14-10-2014 at 15:46 ----------

 

Or indeed any other country. Or they coud nuke ireland and let the fallout take the UK out. What good our "deterrant" then?

 

Obviously the UK would have certainly taken an attack upon Ireland as an attack upon the UK and they would have responded in kind. So what point are you trying to make?

[tomwatly]

If having nukes is stopping russia invading us, can I ask whats stopping them invading Norway, Sweden, Finland etc?

 

After all as you say, they are obviously desperate to invade someone!

 

And look at China, they are going to come all the way round the world to invade us, missing out much better targets on the way!!!

 

According to recent news Sweden and Finland have forged closer ties with NATO

because Russian aircraft violated their airspace three times in a week. So NATO and its nuclear deterrent might be the reason why Russia hasn't invaded Norway, Sweden, and Finland.