UK told to pay £1.7bn extra to EU

[PeteMorris]

And you could of course apply exactly the same logic to Mecky and tell him to indicate he's not going to answer the question. But of course you wont do that given your history with me now would you Pete..:-)

 

Mecky says he's answered and explained!....

 

Any 'history' between you and I is irrelevant!.....If I didn't know better I'd think you were deliberately baiting...But hey ho...I can't be bothered today

[Obelix]

Again, I was referring specifically to Frederick stating he would like to see what happened if the UK simply refused to pay and gave one potential scenario.

 

T 42 - I agree with that actually, but it is playing with fire, as was the Scotland referendum. A vote to leave the EU will trigger all sorts of consequences, although it might be beneficial, there is a significant risk that it won't be. Is it worth taking that risk?

 

Unlike Scotland though that has to be balanced against where the EU is going to take us - it's not the static relationship like we have with Scotland. I like the EU but I sometimes don't like the way it takes us and the way it's seemingly drawing us into federalism. I can well understand why people want to leave it, even if I currently don't. I never had that understanding with Scotland.

[tzijlstra]

You'd have to do a risk/benefit analysis... if the benefit could be big enough then yes, a risk is worth it..

 

Agreed, and let me make clear I am not necessarily against it. It would be a good opportunity to silence the Euro-sceptics and it would FINALLY open up a genuine debate about what the EU does for us.

 

Just an example but there was something on the One Show about the decline of certain birds. They stated that there were government schemes available to farmers for creating natural habitat for birds. They didn't mention that it wasn't a government scheme, it is an EU wide scheme. Things like that drive me nuts, no wonder people here don't understand what the EU actually does well.

[Frederick1]

It has been continuous Mecky, and it is going to ramp up ten fold should the reality of a referendum come closer. In fact, we have a perfect parallel now - the Scottish independence referendum. I still find it brilliantly ironic that Cameron campaigned for: We are better together (which he actually believes when it comes to the EU as well) whilst still having digs at every opportunity possible regarding the EU to appease a few ignorant back-benchers.

 

---------- Post added 24-10-2014 at 11:39 ----------

 

 

Yes, that would be all that would happen. Absolutely.

 

All??? Less immigration? Lower use of the NHS and other services? The savings would be astronomical.

[tzijlstra]

Unlike Scotland though that has to be balanced against where the EU is going to take us - it's not the static relationship like we have with Scotland. I like the EU but I sometimes don't like the way it takes us and the way it's seemingly drawing us into federalism. I can well understand why people want to leave it, even if I currently don't. I never had that understanding with Scotland.

 

Isn't that an indicator that the EU is not known well enough by the British public (and the public in the whole of the EU, something I agree with immediately).

 

The relation with Scotland is centuries old, but over the last decade it has changed more rapidly than the EU has ever changed.

[Obelix]

Mecky says he's answered and explained!....

 

Except he hasn't. He's done his usually trick of posting a different question that he can answer with his own political spin and claiming that he's answered the original question.

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

 

The correct response to a strawman is to point out it's occuring and to re-answer the question. Mecky knows that if he keeps up the pretence he can eventually claim I am being unreasonable by asking the question and report me to the mods who then oblige him. So I point out now that he's not answering the question, and refuse to answer his questions. Notice now that the moderators are invovled he's immediatly disappeared and is keeping his head down, hoping that I'll be banned and he avoids the fallout?

 

Any 'history' between you and I is irrelevant!.....If I didn't know better I'd think you were deliberately baiting...But hey ho...I can't be bothered today

 

Me baiting? The only person baiting on here is Mecky and he's using you as fuel to do it Pete....

[tzijlstra]

All??? Less immigration? Lower use of the NHS and other services? The savings would be astronomical.

 

 

Analogy: as a household I want to make a saving. So I am not going to pay British Gas anymore. The savings would be astronomical, can't believe I didn't think of that before!

 

PS: still waiting for an acknowledgement of the fact that LGI dialysis indeed serves a lot of BRITISH Pakistanis.

[truman]

Agreed, and let me make clear I am not necessarily against it. It would be a good opportunity to silence the Euro-sceptics and it would FINALLY open up a genuine debate about what the EU does for us.

 

Just an example but there was something on the One Show about the decline of certain birds. They stated that there were government schemes available to farmers for creating natural habitat for birds. They didn't mention that it wasn't a government scheme, it is an EU wide scheme. Things like that drive me nuts, no wonder people here don't understand what the EU actually does well.

 

One thing that annoys me is when you see signs saying things have been financed by Europe...they haven't ..as we are a net contributor they have been financed by us..we are only getting some of the money back that we've put in..

 

---------- Post added 24-10-2014 at 12:05 ----------

 

 

Analogy: as a household I want to make a saving. So I am not going to pay British Gas anymore. The savings would be astronomical, can't believe I didn't think of that before!

 

.

 

Why don't you just fine a better supplier ?

[Mecky]

Mecky says he's answered and explained!....

 

Any 'history' between you and I is irrelevant!.....If I didn't know better I'd think you were deliberately baiting...But hey ho...I can't be bothered today

 

I expalined my opinion in post 37, he can go and check it out if he likes. No doubt he'll come running back trying to trip me up with more stupid questions. Honestly, if he's trying to troll he's not very good at it. I don't mind people giving replies with questions but at least they should keep them on the thread theme rather than trying to steer the argument onto the no doubt well-rehearsed grounds they feel they can win.

[tzijlstra]

One thing that annoys me is when you see signs saying things have been financed by Europe...they haven't ..as we are a net contributor they have been financed by us..we are only getting some of the money back that we've put in..

 

Except that that isn't how it works, is it? That net-contribution actually enables access to the free market which is hugely beneficial to the UK.

 

The issue with thinking just in terms of how much it costs is that no one can actually calculate how much it delivers in intangible terms. How many jobs in this country are reliant on that open market? I can't tell you the precise number, but I do know that it is a hell of a lot more than people realise.