Obelix Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Isn't that an indicator that the EU is not known well enough by the British public (and the public in the whole of the EU, something I agree with immediately). The relation with Scotland is centuries old, but over the last decade it has changed more rapidly than the EU has ever changed. I think if the EU were well known even more people would dislike it I fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 One thing that annoys me is when you see signs saying things have been financed by Europe...they haven't ..as we are a net contributor they have been financed by us..we are only getting some of the money back that we've put in. If we're lucky. Like I said, I don't mind us paying in more when the UK is doingbetter than expected, but by the same token, we should be able to take out more when we're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I think if the EU were well known even more people would dislike it I fear. Can I ask why? I dare say I know the EU rather well and I am completely opposite of fear, I fear for the UK not being part of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Except that that isn't how it works, is it? That net-contribution actually enables access to the free market which is hugely beneficial to the UK. If it was a free market we wouldn't have to pay a subscription...it's a rigged market... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I expalined my opinion in post 37, he can go and check it out if he likes. No doubt he'll come running back trying to trip me up with more stupid questions. Honestly, if he's trying to troll he's not very good at it. I don't mind people giving replies with questions but at least they should keep them on the thread theme rather than trying to steer the argument onto the no doubt well-rehearsed grounds they feel they can win. No I'd just like the answer to the original question Mecky... but I fear you will quack and complain and whine and pule as ever.... Tell you what I'll add that to the list of your unanswered questions - 34 of them so far - and save you your embarrassment. How does that sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Except he hasn't. He's done his usually trick of posting a different question that he can answer with his own political spin and claiming that he's answered the original question. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman The correct response to a strawman is to point out it's occuring and to re-answer the question. Mecky knows that if he keeps up the pretence he can eventually claim I am being unreasonable by asking the question and report me to the mods who then oblige him. So I point out now that he's not answering the question, and refuse to answer his questions. Notice now that the moderators are invovled he's immediatly disappeared and is keeping his head down, hoping that I'll be banned and he avoids the fallout? Me baiting? The only person baiting on here is Mecky and he's using you as fuel to do it Pete.... Well he's barking up the wrong tree then....as you are well aware I won't moderate threads I'm posting on....(unless there's absolutely no choice...ie no other mods about and something needs sorting quickly) As you know very well...I have my own views on things...which I'll defend to the best of my ability...Yep, they're sometimes a bit 'off the wall' and not everyone agrees but it's just me! Back on subject: I'm still interested in the claim that the new figures take into account the 'black economy'....I still don't understand how that would be possible....I'm genuinely all ears if someone could explain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Well he's barking up the wrong tree then....as you are well aware I won't moderate threads I'm posting on....(unless there's absolutely no choice...ie no other mods about and something needs sorting quickly) As you know very well...I have my own views on things...which I'll defend to the best of my ability...Yep, they're sometimes a bit 'off the wall' and not everyone agrees but it's just me! Back on subject: I'm still interested in the claim that the new figures take into account the 'black economy'....I still don't understand how that would be possible....I'm genuinely all ears if someone could explain! The black market can be well characterised - it doesnt mean that it's hidden just that people are not paying taxes and dues on it. Ergo it's easy enough to account for it's value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) Except that that isn't how it works, is it? That net-contribution actually enables access to the free market which is hugely beneficial to the UK. The issue with thinking just in terms of how much it costs is that no one can actually calculate how much it delivers in intangible terms. How many jobs in this country are reliant on that open market? I can't tell you the precise number, but I do know that it is a hell of a lot more than people realise. A best example (if slightly dated now) of this principle, i.e. not tangibly perceived as EU-dependent or -related (which, after a lot of research and calculation, could actually be expressed tangibly I'm sure) but which owes most to the UK's membership of the EU, is non-EU car manufacturer implantations in the UK. Which has generated a lot of direct (corporate tax, of manufacturers and the interdependent and non-trivial subcontracting industry) and indirect (income tax, NI, VAT for all and more) wealth for the UK Gvt, some of which has found its way into funding the EU's stipend, round and round she goes - a virtuous circle. Edited October 24, 2014 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 The black market can be well characterised - it doesnt mean that it's hidden just that people are not paying taxes and dues on it. Ergo it's easy enough to account for it's value. I'm still confused (sorry)....you say it can be 'well characterised'....Does that mean calculated?.....If it's not taxed....and despite what you say, it to all intent and purpose hidden ...off the radar shall we say....I don't see how it can be accounted for unless it's a guestimate?.....I promise I'm not being obtuse...I genuinely can't see how it's worked out and factored in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InigoMontoya Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Surely it is stories like this that have pro European Unionists pulling their hair out and the anti EU parties laughing and pointing. This is almost exactly what my first thoughts were. (That, and "it's almost as if they want UKIP to win the General Election") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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