Is it acceptable for non Muslims to wear burkas?

[mjw47]

 

..and yet you're 'offended' by a fabric garment, have you thought it through?

 

You normally that obtuse?

 

I am not offended by the burka, I simply feel that it is unnatural in this country and is being imposed, mostly against the will, of the wearers.

 

My only feeling when I see someone wearing one is of sadness for the poor ill treat downtrodden female being forced by her stone age thinking male relative into walking around like a non human.

 

I don't feel offence, I feel pity.

[boyfriday]

You normally that obtuse?

 

I am not offended by the burka, I simply feel that it is unnatural in this country and is being imposed, mostly against the will, of the wearers.

 

My only feeling when I see someone wearing one is of sadness for the poor ill treat downtrodden female being forced by her stone age thinking male relative into walking around like a non human.

 

I don't feel offence, I feel pity.

 

That's fine, hopefully you keep those illogical feelings to yourself.

[mjw47]

That's fine, hopefully you keep those illogical feelings to yourself.

 

Well, as we're holding this debate on a public forum, no I won't, and talking of logic, you're not very good at it are you?

 

Please explain how my thinking that men imposing a weird unneccessary foreign style of dress on their female relatives is wrong, and a bit sad, is illogical.

 

It might be an idea if you look up the meaning of logic first, because I'm not sure that you fully grasp the concept.

[boyfriday]

Well, as we're holding this debate on a public forum, no I won't, and talking of logic, you're not very good at it are you?

 

Please explain how my thinking that men imposing a weird unneccessary foreign style of dress on their female relatives is wrong, and a bit sad, is illogical.

 

It might be an idea if you look up the meaning of logic first, because I'm not sure that you fully grasp the concept.

 

Because you're fabricating a view about how a group of people behave and how that behaviour manifests itself. Seeking a ban on the burka is no different to the oppression you refer to-hence it's illogical because it would impact on women many of whom might happily choose to wear this garment for whatever reason.

 

What will you be advocating next, that boob jobs are banned because many are paid for by men who want their wives to sport the biggest tits on the estate??

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2014 at 19:43 ----------

 

Well, as we're holding this debate on a public forum, no I won't, and talking of logic, you're not very good at it are you?

 

I was encouraging you to not share your views amongst burka wearers, Im delighted you articulate them here and give others the opportunity to hurl rotten eggs at you

[janie48]

Because you're fabricating a view about how a group of people behave and how that behaviour manifests itself. Seeking a ban on the burka is no different to the oppression you refer to-hence it's illogical because it would impact on women many of whom might happily choose to wear this garment for whatever reason.

 

What will you be advocating next, that boob jobs are banned because many are paid for by men who want their wives to sport the biggest tits on the estate??

Its the ones who don't have a choice he's obviously concerned about, not the ones who do.

[Cyclone]

But the law does concern itself with a lack of courtesy, what do you think the laws against racial abuse are?

No, abusing someone racial is not simply discourteous.

 

If the abuse is only verbal and no physical harm is done it is still an offence in law, however, all that has happened is that someone has been discourteous in a serious manner.

No.

 

In what possible way can you interpret treating everyone equally and requiring the customs of the country to be observed as oppression?

In what way can you not consider banning a mode of dress and an item of clothing as oppression?

 

As there is no religious requirement for the burka then the reason for it being worn is at the personal behest of some man wanting to keep his women under his control.

Or perhaps it's simply because someone wants to wear it.

Are you claiming to be a mind reader?

 

Last year whilst waiting for a flight in Manchester airport I observed a young Asian couple, he was dressed like an American gangsta rapper, over sized baseball cap worn sideways, trainers, skinny jeans, baseball jacket, all designer stuff.

He was playing with his iPod and moving to something he was listening to on his earphones.

 

Meanwhile, his wife was stood there in a burka with only her eyes on view.

Yeah, and you read her mind I suppose?

 

We have a custom in this country which whilst not being enshrined in law is generally adhered to, it's called 'what's good for the goose is good for the gander'.

We have another tradition, of personal freedom, of amongst lots of other things allowing people to wear pretty much what they want.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2014 at 19:53 ----------

 

Got nothing to do with Islam whatsoever?

 

Has Islam condemned the practice and instructed it's followers to stop or risk whatever their version of excommunication is?

 

Click on the first link on SavannahP post at 140.

 

It is estimated that over 20,000 girls under 15 are at risk of FGM each year in the UK.

 

How many of those do you think will be Muslim and how many from other religions.

 

And some Muslims practice genocide. Some Muslims practice dog fights and some Muslims have sex with children.

 

And so do people of all other religions and none.

 

You seem to be simply looking for an excuse to air your islamaphobia.

[boyfriday]

Its the ones who don't have a choice he's obviously concerned about, not the ones who do.

 

Yes, I'd worked that out janie48, although I doubt very much the poster has any interest in women's rights as a ban would impact on those who freely exercise their freedom to wear it.

 

 

The lot of the ones who don't 'have the choice' will not be improved by banning the burka, abusive men don't change their behaviour by changing what their female family members wear, assuming of course the majority are compelled to this mode of dress.

[Cyclone]

All that from

 

The thread mountaingineers have been busy!

If the item of clothing is considered a 'prison' for those people who are made to wear it...on the contrary it's deliciously ironic to criminalise their 'jailer'.

Criminalising wearing the item of clothing does nothing to someone who might wish to force them to wear it. It certainly doesn't criminalise them.

On the other hand, someone who wishes to wear that clothing has had that freedom taken away.

[skinz]

 

Whilst I understand that you're being facetious, the point being made is actually serious.

 

Women are being forced into an unnatural situation and denied the opportunity of normal human interaction by controlling misogynist men who are doing it to compensate for their own feelings of inadequacy.

 

Banning the burka will not remove mans feelings of inadequacy..that's a given.

 

If the Burka is defined as enforcement and enforcement only then we have laws to counter that. But there is evidence that not all wearers are enforced.

 

A week ago while in Nando's just before watching a film I was asked "can I take this chair luv". Yeh, go ahead I replied. She didn't sound intimidated or controlled wearing her Burka. Her husband and 2 kids were at the table with her. You could be right though, maybe he battered the living daylights out of her when he got her home.

 

Whenever I hear or read the word "ban" my suspicion radar goes into auto, especially from anti-misogynists who have no issues with looking at a pair if tits on page 3. As an indigenous society we're not short on controlling misogynists too. At least the Burka would cover her embarrassment of facial cuts n bruises, unlike the poor soul at the post office recently in Southey who looked like she'd just been put through a meat grinder.

[Cyclone]

I've completely lost track of this thread.

 

mjw47 has rephrased his attack on the freedom to wear your own choice of clothing, from originally being the defence of the cultural norm, to now being an attempt to stop the oppression of people forced to wear that clothing.

 

I guess we should ban high heels and short skirts as well, since presumably pimps force some girls to wear them.

 

Wait just a little while and he'll be back with another reason to ban clothing he perceives as "not normal" and probably some slight aside about FGM and a veiled reference to Islam.