Is it acceptable for non Muslims to wear burkas?

[boyfriday]

That's my opinion its not offensive its just what I think.

 

If you read my post you'll see that comment wasn't directed at you.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2014 at 23:23 ----------

 

And where is your evidence to support your viewpoint? Conspicuous by it's absence.

What, my viewpoint saying we shouldn't interfere in what people wear? I think that's been an established feature of British life for many years.

Once again you are missing the point, it may or may not improve the lives of those women forced to wear it, I think certainly in some instances it would, they might pull a better bloke, which I believe is one of their husbands fears.

That may or may not be the case, but how can you provide a better outcome by restricting choice and personal freedoms?

But that was not my point, they are behaving in an alien manner in a country that they have chosen to live in and are denying the possibility of normal day to day human interaction.

To me it's no more alien than body piercings, conspicuous body art or surgical enhancements-I dont particularly regard any of them, but I wouldn't make any observations about people who do I why they make the choices they do.

It is only the concealing of the face that is in any way objectionable, if they want to wear a hijab covering hair and complete body, fine.

It may be anachronistic but if that's their choice then it's none of my business. Remember the threads about the acceptability of non Muslims to wear the burka, my view is exactly the same for them, irrespective of what Muslims might say about it negatively.

Saris, love em,they add colour and variety to life, wear what the hell you like but don't cover your face, it is unnatural and alien in this country.

So are a lot of things I can think of, but I don't regard them as my business.

Do you get that? Stop coming up with ridiculous analogies.

Ridicule seems to be the best means to challenge ridiculous arguments-do you get it?

Having said which, I would definitely be prepared to give consideration to your electric chair for people wearing Wednesday shirts suggestion.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2014 at 23:24 ----------

 

English people cannot be Muslim

 

I think you'll find they most definitely can.

[mjw47]

yes, I feel I personally benefited from wearing the headscarf. it's not for everyone, and I do not expect everyone to wear it.

 

I'm not interested in running after the latest fashion, or glam outfits etc.

 

I do not want to be just a pair of bosoms and a backside, and objectified, that is one of the main reasons I wear a headscarf. I'm happy to be free from being entrapped into being pigeonholed by looks or fashion.

 

I don't want to get caught up in the idiocy of aspiring to a size Zero body, or a particular shade of "helsinki 10.1 blonde hair" (I'm blonde anyway lol) and all that gubbins.

 

I look to be appreciated for me, for my intellect, etc, rather than pandering to some unattainable ideal. I accept I am never going to be seven stone, and six feet tall, in this life or the next. and I am happy as me, as someone whose genetics decided she was going to be short and plump rather than tall and willowy.

 

I'm not interested in plastic surgery, botox, or "fillers":- I have earned every line on my face, through every laugh, every smile, every tear.

 

I feel that by adopting the Hijaab, I don't have to conform to society's rigid model of being female. I am me.

 

All of that seems perfectly reasonable and acceptable to me. I have no problem whatsoever with that decision.

 

On the other hand, had you taken it that one step further and decided to conceal your identity beneath a burka, I would have found it objectionable.

 

I have always found women interesting, they are equal but different, and that is one of the joys of life.

 

Having been raised by an Irish mother and had four Irish aunts, plus being taught by nuns I was disabused of the notion that women are the 'weaker sex' in anything but a physical sense by the time I was ten years old.

 

I know that many Muslims treat women with respect and do not choose to control them, but in common with most religions, including Catholicism in which I was raised, it is misogynist to a greater or lessor degree.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2014 at 00:21 ----------

 

If you read my post you'll see that comment wasn't directed at you.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2014 at 23:23 ----------

 

What, my viewpoint saying we shouldn't interfere in what people wear? I think that's been an established feature of British life for many years.

That may or may not be the case, but how can you provide a better outcome by restricting choice and personal freedoms?

To me it's no more alien than body piercings, conspicuous body art or surgical enhancements-I dont particularly regard any of them, but I wouldn't make any observations about people who do I why they make the choices they do.

It may be anachronistic but if that's their choice then it's none of my business. Remember the threads about the acceptability of non Muslims to wear the burka, my view is exactly the same for them, irrespective of what Muslims might say about it negatively.

So are a lot of things I can think of, but I don't regard them as my business.

Ridicule seems to be the best means to challenge ridiculous arguments-do you get it?

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2014 at 23:24 ----------

 

 

I think you'll find they most definitely can.

 

But we do interfere with what people wear, Stephen Gough, years in prison.

 

Concealing your identity is completely alien to our culture.

 

Tattoos and body piercings aren't, Queen Boudica? Woad?

 

Burka's have already been used by men to conceal their identity whilst carrying out robberies.

 

Is there any chance that you can get it through your head that I don't give a rats arse what anyone wears providing that they don't cover their faces?

 

Your apparent inability to understand that simple fact is becoming tiresome.

 

Try to comprehend this, wear what you want, wear nothing, tattoo yourself like a Maori, wear a bone through your nose and a daffodil up your arse, I don't care, just don't hide your face.

 

And yes, you hard of understanding nitwit it has always been about concealing identity.

 

Get it? Finally?

Edited October 29, 2014 by mjw47

[skinz]

 

On the other hand, had you taken it that one step further and decided to conceal your identity beneath a burka, I would have found it objectionable.

 

I know this may come as a bit of a shock but it may just be that PT or anyone else for that matter whether they wear a burka hajib or just a belt may not give a flying if you're distressed, upset, or even damaged by the idea.

[janie48]

 

I know that many Muslims treat women with respect and do not choose to control them, but in common with most religions, including Catholicism in which I was raised, it is misogynist to a greater or lesser degree. ]

Misogyny is a dislike of women.

 

Most women are are quite capable of recognising misogynists. Its rather insulting to imply that women who belong to a religion are subservient and unassertive.

[Jomie]

Quote by Plain Talker: I'm not interested in running after the latest fashion, or glam outfits etc.

 

I do not want to be just a pair of bosoms and a backside, and objectified, that is one of the main reasons I wear a headscarf. I'm happy to be free from being entrapped into being pigeonholed by looks or fashion.

 

I don't want to get caught up in the idiocy of aspiring to a size Zero body, or a particular shade of "helsinki 10.1 blonde hair" (I'm blonde anyway lol) and all that gubbins.

 

I look to be appreciated for me, for my intellect, etc, rather than pandering to some unattainable ideal. I accept I am never going to be seven stone, and six feet tall, in this life or the next. and I am happy as me, as someone whose genetics decided she was going to be short and plump rather than tall and willowy.

 

I'm not interested in plastic surgery, botox, or "fillers":- I have earned every line on my face, through every laugh, every smile, every tear.

 

I feel that by adopting the Hijaab, I don't have to conform to society's rigid model of being female. I am me.

There is something of the ridiculous in this statement and it is insulting to the billions of women throughout the world who subscribe to exactly the same view. The difference being that they don't walk around with head scarves on. They don't need to - their character and the way they live their lives is testament to this, making a piece of cloth unnecessary. It is perfectly possible to dress modestly in Western style clothing without resorting to this kind of covering up, be it burqa or hijab. These items of attire are nothing more than a political statement.

[SavannahP]

yes, I feel I personally benefited from wearing the headscarf. it's not for everyone, and I do not expect everyone to wear it.

 

I'm not interested in running after the latest fashion, or glam outfits etc.

 

I do not want to be just a pair of bosoms and a backside, and objectified, that is one of the main reasons I wear a headscarf. I'm happy to be free from being entrapped into being pigeonholed by looks or fashion.

 

I don't want to get caught up in the idiocy of aspiring to a size Zero body, or a particular shade of "helsinki 10.1 blonde hair" (I'm blonde anyway lol) and all that gubbins.

 

I look to be appreciated for me, for my intellect, etc, rather than pandering to some unattainable ideal. I accept I am never going to be seven stone, and six feet tall, in this life or the next. and I am happy as me, as someone whose genetics decided she was going to be short and plump rather than tall and willowy.

 

I'm not interested in plastic surgery, botox, or "fillers":- I have earned every line on my face, through every laugh, every smile, every tear.

 

I feel that by adopting the Hijaab, I don't have to conform to society's rigid model of being female. I am me.

 

Millions of women probably feel the same and millions won't give a rats what men think of them, but how does wearing an head scarf stop a small minority of men from objectifying you and just seeing you as a pair of bosoms and a backside. You are what you are and some men will see ugly or be beauty no matter what you wear.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2014 at 07:08 ----------

 

There is something of the ridiculous in this statement and it is insulting to the billions of women throughout the world who subscribe to exactly the same view. The difference being that they don't walk around with head scarves on. They don't need to - their character and the way they live their lives is testament to this, making a piece of cloth unnecessary. It is perfectly possible to dress modestly in Western style clothing without resorting to this kind of covering up, be it burqa or hijab. These items of attire are nothing more than a political statement.

 

Its sounds to me that the head scarf is just replacing the safety/comfort blanket that some kids carry into adulthood.

[Cyclone]

If by that remark you mean a dislike of Muslims then you are totally out of order. MJ hasn't stated anything that would imply that.

 

No of course, he appears to really like them. Hence he keeps attributing FGM to them and wants to ban the clothing they like to wear.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2014 at 07:23 ----------

 

Whilst I agree that Muslim women who choose to wear the burqa do so out of their own free will, as an act of worship and a form of liberation from the objectification of women in modern society, you cannot expect a non Muslim to know this. Preventing Muslim women from practising their religion is what is truly oppressive, yet to accuse another person of islamaphobia due to their misunderstanding of the culture is very wrong indeed, and I assume you will apologise for this remark.

It isnt your place to make this assumption, and although your posts are usually well thought out, im afraid you have let your standards slip with this offensive remark.

 

Well, firstly I'm a non Muslim, and I seem to have managed to understand it.

And secondly, no, I won't, I think it's true.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2014 at 07:24 ----------

 

You claim I am fabricating a view, where is your proof of that contention?

 

Seeking a ban on the burka is nothing like the oppression of someone insisting that one must be worn by their female family members because they insist upon it.

You can't see the hypocrisy in this statement?

"Us" telling you what to wear is nothing like "Them" telling you what to wear.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2014 at 07:27 ----------

 

And yes, you hard of understanding nitwit it has always been about concealing identity.

 

 

If it was you'd have been talking about banning concealing your face in public for the entire time. But you weren't.

[jenita11]

A non-Muslim woman who wears the burka due to a medical condition has suffered racist abuse and been called a ‘race traitor’.

 

She has experienced some of the racist abuse which Muslim women face on a regular basis in western lands.

 

Her experience has opened her eyes to the bigotry which exists in the UK which is fuelled by Islamophobic comments from leading politicians and the media.

 

The challenge for Muslims is to explain to non-Muslims about our way of life and to be proud of our identity as Muslims.

[janie48]

No of course, he appears to really like them. Hence he keeps attributing FGM to them and wants to ban the clothing they like to wear. .

You have no justification for accusing him of Islamophobia, and I'm surprised a person with your intelligence is doing so.

 

I don't know why FGM was introduced into this topic because it has nothing do with the wearing of the burka, but then you've been comparing peoples choice of fashion trends with the burka, when the subject is about concealing the face which is a barrier to communication as well as being an identification issue which many people feel uncomfortable with.

[xxtx2503]

I like your username