Is it acceptable for non Muslims to wear burkas?

[SavannahP]

I never suggested that people should be free to ignore dress codes at places at work.

These things are not legal requirements.

 

---------- Post added 01-11-2014 at 09:42 ----------

 

 

You keep saying "rules", so No. I would follow the law.

 

They are still rules that have to be adhered to if they want to attend a school use a business or work for someone. I don't have an issue with these rules providing that a business, employer, school can ban any item of clothing that they want to ban, the law shouldn't prevent them banning items of clothing on religious grounds, the law should allow them to ban anything or nothing.

[boyfriday]

I think what annoys some people is that when a school or collage makes a decision like this there is outrage on behalf of the Muslims, but no one is outraged that other kids can't wear their hoodies, caps, and hats, which actuality don't hide the face so I have no idea why they are included in the ban.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/birmingham-college-bans-the-burka-8807148.html

 

Religious veils have been banned at Birmingham Metropolitan College for ‘security’ reasons, provoking anger among Muslim students and staff.

 

 

As the niqab veil leaves only a small gap for the eyes, college management has deemed it a risk, stating that individuals should be ‘easily identifiable at all times’ so that all students can study in a ‘safe and welcoming learning environment’. Other clothing to be removed on the college grounds includes hoodies, hats and caps.

 

The ban has sent shockwaves around the Muslim community, with one 17-year-old girl calling the decision ‘discriminatory’ and ‘disgusting’. Another student explained that she and her Muslim peers had offered to show their faces to security men so that their IDs could be checked, but that her suggestion had been rejected.

 

“We have a very robust Equality, Diversity and Inclusion Policy at Birmingham Metropolitan College, but to ensure that safeguarding is a priority, we have developed our policy alongside student views to ensure we keep them safe,” principal and chief-executive Dame Christine Braddock told the Birmingham Mail.

 

“All prospective students, as well as staff, have been advised of the policy, which will mean that everyone allowed on the premises can understand and know each other.”

 

Reaction across social media is divided, with comments ranging from ‘a brave but wrong move’ to ‘good, now ban them throughout the UK’.

 

A protest against the ban, due to take place on Friday at 2.30pm, has been organised on Facebook with a statement reading: “Muslim women already face many challenges in society leading to marginalisation and discrimination. We are under-represented in education and subsequently in public life and in the workforce.

 

“Decisions like the one taken by the leadership at Matthew Boulton College make things worse for women who already face an uphill battle against endemic discrimination. Brothers welcome, as are non-Muslims who understand the need to preserve the rights of Muslim women and freedom of expression for society as a whole.”

 

The college’s decision follows Conservative MP Philip Hollobone’s Private Member’s Bill proposing a nation-wide ban on the burka. The Kettering MP refuses to meet with constituents who will not remove their veils.

 

Speaking on the college’s decision, he said, “Congratulations to Birmingham Metropolitan College on its stance. It clearly makes sense for the college authorities to be able to recognise those on its campus and this is simply not possible to do when some students choose to cover their faces.”

 

 

In the text you quoted Savannah it appears the ban is extended to the niqab as well as hoodies etc, so no concession has been made for peoples religious beliefs..the colleges rules apply equally.

[SavannahP]

What is the reason for wearing a burka ?

 

Because the Quran instructs men and women to dress and behave modestly in society and the Burka is an extreme method of doing so.

 

---------- Post added 01-11-2014 at 10:20 ----------

 

In the text you quoted Savannah it appears the ban is extended to the niqab as well as hoodies etc, so no concession has been made for peoples religious beliefs..the colleges rules apply equally.

 

But it doesn't appear to ban the hijab which just covers the hair, not that different to an hoodie but they are banned.

Edited November 1, 2014 by SavannahP

[Cyclone]

They are still rules that have to be adhered to if they want to attend a school use a business or work for someone. I don't have an issue with these rules providing that a business, employer, school can ban any item of clothing that they want to ban, the law shouldn't prevent them banning items of clothing on religious grounds, the law should allow them to ban anything or nothing.

 

We aren't talking about passing a law that says "rules at your place of work must be followed" though. We are discussing a ban in public on wearing this item of clothing.

Rules at places of work or school are nothing to do with this discussion.

[mjw47]

IMO.

 

---------- Post added 01-11-2014 at 00:05 ----------

 

 

There's nothing any more incongruous about it than any other item of clothing. The fact that you personally dislike it isn't relevant.

 

Isn't there?

 

Name me another item of clothing that completely disguises and removes the individuality of the person wearing it and isn't being worn for a temporary specific purpose.

 

The burka is controversial precisely because it is unique as a form of dress.

 

Confronted with someone wearing one you have no idea what your dealing with, could be a woman, could be a man, could be old, could be young, might be friendly, may be hostile, you've no idea, all normal everyday means of communication and interaction have been eliminated.

 

There is no religious reason for the wearing of this garment it is purely there as the personal choice of whoever has decided to separate themselves from their fellow citizens.

 

And quite often it isn't even the choice of the person wearing it, it's the choice of their controller.

 

This is a garment which is completely unnatural and alien to our society and by allowing the discrimination and inequality involved in allowing it we are showing our weak and pandering character.

[Cyclone]

The hoody.

 

You've got a real blind spot haven't you.

[mjw47]

The hoody.

 

You've got a real blind spot haven't you.

 

If you think a hoody is exactly the same as a burka then I would suggest that you are actually blind.

 

Yes, they try to hide their face by looking down but you can get to look at their face if you want to by the simple action of talking to them.

 

This I have done on a few occasions and do you know what? On each occasion it turned out that they were perfectly nice kids just wanting to go with peer pressure.

 

Whilst I speak to Muslims on a daily basis - and will be doing so again in about 30 minutes - I have never spoken to someone wearing a burka.

 

It is you that has the blind spot here, you are determined to try to make a case that the burka is just another form of clothing with no other connotations attached.

 

You are failing miserably.

[Zamo]

Rules at places of work or school are nothing to do with this discussion.

 

That isn't strictly true because rules made at a school, bank, or wherever, need to comply with anti-discrimination law. Rules need to be consistently applied and imposed on all without exception but that is not the case and the reason of this debate. If you make exceptions (and exceptions are being made for Muslims wearing the burka) then you are discriminating... that is what people are complaining about.

[harvey19]

Because the Quran instructs men and women to dress and behave modestly in society and the Burka is an extreme method of doing so.

 

.

 

But it is not classed as lacking modesty to show one's face in this country so surely this interpretation needs to be relevant to the country where one lives.

In Tangiers I was told it was not necessary for a woman to cover her face only her hair.

It appears to me to be a visible sign of non integration.

[Cyclone]

That isn't strictly true because rules made at a school, bank, or wherever, need to comply with anti-discrimination law. Rules need to be consistently applied and imposed on all without exception but that is not the case and the reason of this debate. If you make exceptions (and exceptions are being made for Muslims wearing the burka) then you are discriminating... that is what people are complaining about.

 

They may be complaining about that, and that is a valid complaint.

But that isn't in any way a justification to ban the burkha.

 

---------- Post added 01-11-2014 at 14:45 ----------

 

If you think a hoody is exactly the same as a burka then I would suggest that you are actually blind.

Nobody said "exactly the same".

You claimed that no "native" type of clothing could hide the identity, when it quite clearly can.

 

Yes, they try to hide their face by looking down but you can get to look at their face if you want to by the simple action of talking to them.

And have you ever tried simply talking to someone in a burka?

 

This I have done on a few occasions and do you know what? On each occasion it turned out that they were perfectly nice kids just wanting to go with peer pressure.

Oh, well it should definitely be banned then. That's coercion.

 

Whilst I speak to Muslims on a daily basis - and will be doing so again in about 30 minutes - I have never spoken to someone wearing a burka.

And yet you have such strong opinions about them. To the point where you strong feelings are more important than the right to wear what we like, your opinion is so important that it should become law!

 

It is you that has the blind spot here, you are determined to try to make a case that the burka is just another form of clothing with no other connotations attached.

No, I'm determined to make the point that the UK holds personal freedom to be important, a point you apparently don't care about.

 

You are failing miserably.

 

In your opinion perhaps.

Your argument in my opinion sounds like the whining of a child, "but I don't like it", being repeated over and over.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Cyclone