Is it acceptable for non Muslims to wear burkas?

[boyfriday]

What if they can't though - certainly if it's a company vehicle. Let's say you have two sisters insured to drive a car and they both drive it on the same day - how can you prove which one was driving it?

 

http://www.which.co.uk/cars/driving/driving-advice/dealing-with-speeding-tickets/speeding-ticket-faqs/

[tinfoilhat]

http://www.which.co.uk/cars/driving/driving-advice/dealing-with-speeding-tickets/speeding-ticket-faqs/

 

Thankyou BF. From the link.

 

"If, after investigating, you still don't know who was driving, you may have a case if you can show that you are not deliberately or negligently withholding the information."

 

You can see how a couple of burkha (and I'm really on about the full face covering ones) wearing named drivers can muddy the waters a bit, over and above someone who didn't wear anything that fully covered the drivers face.

[sandra3dee]

Lets play silly buggers for a moment. Hypothetically. Johnny tracksuit goes on a night out. The doorman says sorry you cant come in. Go home and change into something more appropriate, We will then allow you to enter. Does Johnny go home and change, Or complain about his human rights being violated?

 

At the sometime. We have a serious crime. Eye witnesses say they seen a White male approximately 6’2 wearing a white and gold tracksuit. Blond spiky hair, with a goatee beard, and a small scar above his left eyebrow.

 

At the same time. We have a serious crime. Eye witness say they seen nothing but two eyes. They cant provide any facial features other than I know they have two eyes. Sorry that’s all I could see.

 

Food for thought.

 

---------- Post added 01-11-2014 at 22:48 ----------

 

Police E-FIT

 

Just go straight to the eye section forget about everything else. We now upload an E-fit of two eyes. Have you seen this person lmao!.

[ronthenekred]

Thankyou BF. From the link.

 

"If, after investigating, you still don't know who was driving, you may have a case if you can show that you are not deliberately or negligently withholding the information."

 

You can see how a couple of burkha (and I'm really on about the full face covering ones) wearing named drivers can muddy the waters a bit, over and above someone who didn't wear anything that fully covered the drivers face.

 

I would have thought the guilty one would come forward in order for the innocent one to avoid blame. Unless the burka is solely seen as a means to break the law or the definition of a wearer is corrupt. The chances of twins or burka wearers both forgetting is probably pushing it. The repercussions of perjury far outweighs a traffic fine. Common sense would prevail..maybe?

[boyfriday]

Thankyou BF. From the link.

 

"If, after investigating, you still don't know who was driving, you may have a case if you can show that you are not deliberately or negligently withholding the information."

 

You can see how a couple of burkha (and I'm really on about the full face covering ones) wearing named drivers can muddy the waters a bit, over and above someone who didn't wear anything that fully covered the drivers face.

 

Do non burka wearers play that game when captured speeding by a rear taken picture tfh? Most of us put our hands up, even though there's no identity evidence

[Cyclone]

If you don't declare the drivers identity, the registered owner is prosecuted for failure to declare who was driving. A burka won't alter that.

 

---------- Post added 02-11-2014 at 11:19 ----------

 

Lets play silly buggers for a moment. Hypothetically. Johnny tracksuit goes on a night out. The doorman says sorry you cant come in. Go home and change into something more appropriate, We will then allow you to enter. Does Johnny go home and change, Or complain about his human rights being violated?

 

At the sometime. We have a serious crime. Eye witnesses say they seen a White male approximately 6’2 wearing a white and gold tracksuit. Blond spiky hair, with a goatee beard, and a small scar above his left eyebrow.

 

At the same time. We have a serious crime. Eye witness say they seen nothing but two eyes. They cant provide any facial features other than I know they have two eyes. Sorry that’s all I could see.

 

Food for thought.

 

---------- Post added 01-11-2014 at 22:48 ----------

 

Police E-FIT

 

Just go straight to the eye section forget about everything else. We now upload an E-fit of two eyes. Have you seen this person lmao!.

 

Eye witness says they had a hoody on, pulled far forwards, no facial features.

 

Oh my god, ban the hoody.

 

---------- Post added 02-11-2014 at 11:23 ----------

 

What I said was " Name me another item of clothing that completely disguises and removes the individuality of the person wearing it and isn't being worn for a specific temporary purpose."

 

That is exactly what the burka does, and all you could come up with was Hoodie,an absolutely pathetic 'grasping at straws' example.

 

Yes, a hoodie is exactly like a burka, well except for the fact that it doesn't actually conceal the face, getting a look at the face of someone wearing a hoodie is a relatively simple matter.

Yeah, if you pull down the hood or force them to raise their head.

Otherwise, no, it's not is it.

 

Admit it, you just don't like the burka and you think your likes and dislikes are important enough to become law.

 

And also the fact that people wearing it are required to remove it in certain circumstances and have no problem doing so.

 

Bluewater shopping centre in Kent banned the hoodie and baseball caps in 2005 I wonder what their rules were regarding the burka?

 

No, despite the fact that I speak to Muslims on a daily basis I haven't tried speaking to someone in a burka.

 

How would I know if my talking to them would be welcomed? Usually, before you talk to a stranger you smile at them,

You must go around looking creepy a lot if you smile at everyone before you speak.

if they smile back you can make an assumption that a comment would not be unwelcome.

 

Occasionally you smile at someone and they 'blank' you, fair enough, they don't want to pass the time of day, their choice.

 

If the face and all expression are hidden, how do you know that whoever is behind the mask would welcome a conversation?

Given your views, just assume they wouldn't and keep yourself to yourself.

I haven't said 'I don't Like it' over and over again, I have made the point that it is discriminatory, divisive , alien to the culture of this country and is allowing inequality to take place between citizens of the same country which is wrong.

It isn't though is it, any of those things. You just don't like it, and think that this is dislike is somehow important.

 

Those are reasonable valid points, which is why some countries have banned the buka, so far you have failed to come up with any counter argument other than whining on about 'our freedom of choice' despite the fact that it has been pointed out to you that people exercising their freedom of choice have been jailed for it.

Yeah, that pesky personal freedom rubbish. It's not really important is it. To a fascist.

 

I strongly suspect that the wearing of this alienating garment is being forced upon many women who given freedom of choice would prefer to dress in more comfortable and inconspicuous clothing.

So you're a mind reader now.

 

In other words I would like to extend freedom of choice to the wearers as well as their male family who have no problem dressing in a western manner.

 

You know, the freedom of choice that is so dear to your heart, but apparently only applicable to certain people.

 

No you wouldn't, you like to force them to wear what you consider acceptable. That's not a choice.

[mjw47]

If you don't declare the drivers identity, the registered owner is prosecuted for failure to declare who was driving. A burka won't alter that.

 

---------- Post added 02-11-2014 at 11:19 ----------

 

 

Eye witness says they had a hoody on, pulled far forwards, no facial features.

 

Oh my god, ban the hoody.

 

---------- Post added 02-11-2014 at 11:23 ----------

 

Yeah, if you pull down the hood or force them to raise their head.

Otherwise, no, it's not is it.

 

Admit it, you just don't like the burka and you think your likes and dislikes are important enough to become law.

You must go around looking creepy a lot if you smile at everyone before you speak.

Given your views, just assume they wouldn't and keep yourself to yourself.

It isn't though is it, any of those things. You just don't like it, and think that this is dislike is somehow important.

Yeah, that pesky personal freedom rubbish. It's not really important is it. To a fascist.

So you're a mind reader now.

 

No you wouldn't, you like to force them to wear what you consider acceptable. That's not a choice.

 

First of all, regarding the burka driving point, it allows the driver/owner to choose who should take responsibility an option not available to the rest of us.

 

Now lets address the illogical case for the burka shall we?

 

Firstly, it's a requirement of the religion.

 

No it isn't, as can be seen by the simple fact that most Muslims in this country manage to follow their religion and obey it's laws without the imposition of this item of clothing on their women.

 

Secondly, it's just a normal item of clothing much like any other.

 

No it isn't, as has been clearly demonstrated by the fact that it has been banned in several countries including a 98% Muslim country.

The ban has been upheld by the European Court of Human Rights as being acceptable and not a breach of anyone's human rights.

 

Thirdly, it's against our 'freedom of choice'.

 

We don't have a freedom of choice, what we have are limited freedoms under the law.

 

Stephen Gough has served years behind bars for attempting to exercise his 'freedom of choice'.

 

I passed my driving test in January 1966 and for years, just like the majority I drove without wearing a seat belt, that choice was taken away.

 

People used to smoke in bars and public buildings,that choice has been taken away.

 

Try to buy alcohol outside the specific times permitting the sale of alcohol. The shop maybe open, and you can purchase anything else, but not that specific item.

 

Your arguments don't stand up to a moments rational thought and your infantile digs at me are highly amusing, you are terrible at debate, replying to facts with insults. You accuse me of being a mind reader and then comment on the way I supposedly think, your hilarious.

 

The burka is a divisive garment which imposes an unequal situation upon the citizens of this country. Citizens should have equal rights and responsibilities, no more, no less.

[tinfoilhat]

Do non burka wearers play that game when captured speeding by a rear taken picture tfh? Most of us put our hands up, even though there's no identity evidence

 

Even our esteemed MPs play the game on occaision. It's something that can be used as an excuse though. But then again we have an increased number of police wearing things that cover their faces more and more and that concerns me. The only people who should cover their faces unless it's for safety reasons are, of course, ninjas because ninjas are cool.

 

---------- Post added 02-11-2014 at 13:51 ----------

 

If you don't declare the drivers identity, the registered owner is prosecuted for failure to declare who was driving. A burka won't alter that.

 

.

 

But what if they don't know? I'm in a works van now. Two of us are in it, both are insured. If the police ring the office how will they know which one is driving?

[boyfriday]

But what if they don't know? I'm in a works van now. Two of us are in it, both are insured. If the police ring the office how will they know which one is driving?

 

Have you read the small print of your employment contract tfh? I'm guessing the salient detail about who is responsible whilst in possession of a company vehicle will be contained there

 

---------- Post added 02-11-2014 at 15:20 ----------

 

Even our esteemed MPs play the game on occaision. It's something that can be used as an excuse though.

 

Not really though, unless you fancy some time at HM's pleasure, as per an esteemed MP.

 

---------- Post added 02-11-2014 at 15:23 ----------

 

First of all, regarding the burka driving point, it allows the driver/owner to choose who should take responsibility an option not available to the rest of us.

 

Assuming your assertion is right, and we refer back to the subject of the thread-you're perfectly entitled to wear a burka if you want to.

[tinfoilhat]

Have you read the small print of your employment contract tfh? I'm guessing the salient detail about who is responsible whilst in possession of a company vehicle will be contained there

 

---------- Post added 02-11-2014 at 15:20 ----------

 

 

Not really though, unless you fancy some time at HM's pleasure, as per an esteemed MP.

 

---------- Post added 02-11-2014 at 15:23 ----------

 

 

Assuming your assertion is right, and we refer back to the subject of the thread-you're perfectly entitled to wear a burka if you want to.

 

I part own the works van in this case and my fellow director (in said office) deals with the insurance etc so I don't what my contract says I don't have one. I cheated a bit there - sorry

 

But I guess, and it's certainly the case with the mp that the police are hoping you will be honest or that your wife/partner colleague dobs you in. With two people with any face covering (doesn't need to be a burkha) it's very difficult to prove or investigate who was driving.

 

How they get on with motorcyclists where there are more than one named rider on the insurance I'm not really sure.