boyfriday Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Lol at the lefties defending the indefensible and making themselves look silly as per. Well Im not a 'leftie' but I am 'defending' people's rights to wear what they want to wear, which is far more admirable a quality than the fascists who want to ban things simply because they don't like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Lol at the lefties defending the indefensible and making themselves look silly as per.I believe the Labour politician Jack Straw was once regarded as a "leftie". He didn't care too much for the burka, and said so, which created a bit of a stir at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Lol at the lefties defending the indefensible and making themselves look silly as per. Personal freedom not near the top of your agenda then Alan? Hope you aren't one of those tedious bores who like telling other folk what to do, but I rather suspect you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Listen put away the Werthers Originals as I don't know you and I don't know your mate but I do know online grooming. Now get in to your thick skull I am not meeting you and your ' Mate'. Seriously tho, you must be getting really hot under the collar if you are that upset because I won't meet you and your ' mate' in order for you to tell me your hypothetical forecast. ' me and my mate' tut tut. I await your reply :hihi: That's my reply. You are either that stupid that you really aren't aware that you have lost this argument, or some little tiny part of you is getting a slow realization that something is wrong and your now getting pathetic. You effectively called me a liar when I posted that a retired police officer who knows a damn sight more about the subject than you ever will agreed with me. I called you out on it and offered you a chance to prove or disprove my contention, you then bottled it and started wriggling. You were offered the choice between putting up or shutting up, you haven't the cojones to do the first or the sense to do the second. You came out with the smartarse comment 'dear' and now your on about 'online grooming'. Tell us, what's the obsession with gay sex? Are you homophobic or possibly repressing urges that you haven't yet managed to express? " But I do know online grooming " Do you really? Very interesting, and yet at the same time somehow not surprising in your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Personal freedom not near the top of your agenda then Alan? Hope you aren't one of those tedious bores who like telling other folk what to do, but I rather suspect you are. pot kettle black ring a bell here :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Well Im not a 'leftie' but I am 'defending' people's rights to wear what they want to wear, which is far more admirable a quality than the fascists who want to ban things simply because they don't like them. In a reply to you at post 587 I explained 4 reasons why I feel that they should be banned. None of those reasons was' because I personally don't like them'. In my view they are valid reasons to ban the garment. You replied something to the effect that it is the British norm to wear what you like. That is nonsense, there are bans and restrictions in place all over the country on hoodies, baseball caps, jeans, replica football shirts and not wearing a tie. The burqa has been banned in France, Belgium, Italy, The Netherlands, Turkey, Syria and Tunisia. Those last three have majority Muslim populations and The Netherlands is one of the most laid back democracies in the world. The Dutch use Proportional Representation as their voting method, it is the fairest and most democratic voting system thus far devised, they have legalised drugs and prostitution, both of which are controlled by the authorities. Despite which, they have banned the Burqa, why do you suppose they did that? Australia is discussing it at present, so do you accept that there is a genuine problem? Any chance that you will address my 4 points, and explain why we should allow this discriminatory piece of clothing to continue to be imposed on the women who have to wear it and us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 In a reply to you at post 587 I explained 4 reasons why I feel that they should be banned. None of those reasons was' because I personally don't like them'. In my view they are valid reasons to ban the garment. You replied something to the effect that it is the British norm to wear what you like. That is nonsense, there are bans and restrictions in place all over the country on hoodies, baseball caps, jeans, replica football shirts and not wearing a tie. The burqa has been banned in France, Belgium, Italy, The Netherlands, Turkey, Syria and Tunisia. Those last three have majority Muslim populations and The Netherlands is one of the most laid back democracies in the world. The Dutch use Proportional Representation as their voting method, it is the fairest and most democratic voting system thus far devised, they have legalised drugs and prostitution, both of which are controlled by the authorities. Despite which, they have banned the Burqa, why do you suppose they did that? Australia is discussing it at present, so do you accept that there is a genuine problem? Any chance that you will address my 4 points, and explain why we should allow this discriminatory piece of clothing to continue to be imposed on the women who have to wear it and us? Yon concocted some namby pamby argument about 'cultural norms', which are going to be subjective at the best of times. Could you be clear about what cultural norms are? Would it include body art? Men in stockings and pig hair wigs? How about mohican hair cuts and extreme piercings? Should we ban them all? ---------- Post added 08-11-2014 at 22:47 ---------- Despite which, they have banned the Burqa, why do you suppose they did that? Homosexuality is still a crime in Alabama, do you suppose they have good reasons for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen. Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 I do wonder, is it easier to put a point of view over in an uncivilised way because it isn't done face to face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) 1, They conflict with our cultural norm of not concealing our identity ( other than in temporary understandable circumstances. ) This is a very weak argument. So what? Reasonable people can cope with that, no bother 2, There is no religious demand or reason for them being worn. Again, a big 'So what?' It's certainly a reason to ban them. If people want to wear them, let them wear them. Therefore it is only on the whim of the people concerned that they exist here. A whim should not outweigh the customs of the country, in fact it is downright rude and inconsiderate for it to happen. This is just laughable made up rubbish. 3, Unless Muslim women are completely different to virtually all other women - who normally like to dress smartly and show some individuality - then I strongly believe that they ( or at least some of them ) are being coerced into wearing them by their misogynist male relatives. This is drivel. 'Normally like to dress smartly' is patronising nonsense. If I'm correct on this it means that we are colluding in abuse by allowing them to be worn. You're not correct. 4, This is the relevant one. I firmly believe that the authorities would not allow the general public enmasse to decide to conceal their faces permanently in public. Err, so what? That's not going to happen is it? So why the panic? This makes it discriminatory in favour of a small minority and against the general population. Utterly meaningless. There are posters that disagree and believe that if we all did decide to go everywhere in disguise the government would not respond in any way and would accept the situation passively. I disagree with that view. Which is easy since no-one but you has proposed that view except you. In a reply to you at post 587 I explained 4 reasons why I feel that they should be banned. And all four were pathetic. None of those reasons was' because I personally don't like them'. No, but they all total non reasons. In my view they are valid reasons to ban the garment. Then you have really faulty reasoning. Who is harmed by women wearing the burka? No - one. What risk or danger is there that merits removing people's freedom to dress how they wish? None. You replied something to the effect that it is the British norm to wear what you like. That is nonsense, there are bans and restrictions in place all over the country on hoodies, baseball caps, jeans, replica football shirts and not wearing a tie. It isn't illegal to wear any of those items, nor can a person be compelled by law to remove them. In places where identity needs to be established it's reasonable to ask a burka clad woman to show her face. Their is no need to change the law. The burqa has been banned in France, Belgium, Italy, The Netherlands, Turkey, Syria and Tunisia. So what? Any chance that you will address my 4 points I have and they carry no weight whatsoever. , and explain why we should allow this discriminatory piece of clothing to continue to be imposed on the women who have to wear it and us? Firstly, unless you are claiming that other people choosing to wear a burka in imposition on you personally, you're talking tripe. If you are claiming it's a personal imposition please explain your reasoning - I could do with a laugh. Even if some women feel a cultural or marital pressure to wear the burka, it's clear that there are many who don't. Their right to wear what they choose shouldn't be interfered with. If your interest is in women's rights, which it clearly isn't, trying to target and criminalise a group of women for what they wear is an asinine way to go about it. Edited November 8, 2014 by Halibut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey104 Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 :hihi: That's my reply. You are either that stupid that you really aren't aware that you have lost this argument, or some little tiny part of you is getting a slow realization that something is wrong and your now getting pathetic. You effectively called me a liar when I posted that a retired police officer who knows a damn sight more about the subject than you ever will agreed with me. I called you out on it and offered you a chance to prove or disprove my contention, you then bottled it and started wriggling. You were offered the choice between putting up or shutting up, you haven't the cojones to do the first or the sense to do the second. You came out with the smartarse comment 'dear' and now your on about 'online grooming'. Tell us, what's the obsession with gay sex? Are you homophobic or possibly repressing urges that you haven't yet managed to express? " But I do know online grooming " Do you really? Very interesting, and yet at the same time somehow not surprising in your case. Oh dear, we have truly moved away from the original discussion haven't we? So what does your 'mate' ex police officer and still in the industry have to say? Or maybe it's just your thoughts and you are trying to bolster your theories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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