poppet2 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-29926372 They refuse to accept gay marriage so refuse to make a cake for the couple. But suppose a Jewish person ordered a cake for a Barmitzva, would that have been against the owners religious beliefs, on the grounds that they believe Jews are wrong by not accepting Jesus as the Messiah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I can't believe this case is being prosecuted. The test is simply - would the same decision have been made if the person making the service request was heterosexual, transsexual, black, brown, yellow, white, male, female, Christian, Muslim, British, India, or whatever. The answer is yes. The company did not refuse to serve someone because of their sexual orientation but because they did not agree with an opinion that was to be conveyed on the cake. Surely it can't be illegal to refuse to take part in the promotion of an opinion you don't agree with?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet2 Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 I can't believe this case is being prosecuted. The test is simply - would the same decision have been made if the person making the service request was heterosexual, transsexual, black, brown, yellow, white, male, female, Christian, Muslim, British, India, or whatever. The answer is yes. The company did not refuse to serve someone because of their sexual orientation but because they did not agree with an opinion that was to be conveyed on the cake. Surely it can't be illegal to refuse to take part in the promotion of an opinion you don't agree with?!? But surely that's as bad as refusing to make a Muslim cake stating 'Happy Eid', when they don't believe in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 They refuse to accept gay marriage so refuse to make a cake for the couple. Would it be illegal to refuse to make a cake for a hetrosexual couple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet2 Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 Would it be illegal to refuse to make a cake for a hetrosexual couple? No, because that's a normal relationship. Anyway it's not the relationship, but the message on the cake that they objected to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Would it be illegal to refuse to make a cake for a hetrosexual couple? But they didn't (and who would they making cakes for - just single people?!?!). People like these are idiots of the highest order. You can't discriminate as a business. End of story. You can ban someone for being violent or abusive, you can lose an order (that wouldn't have been a first in the history of cake makers accross the world) but no these halfwits think that unlike B and B owners etc who ban gay people etc they will win the day. Well you won't dullards. You'll be landed with crushing legal fees and paying damages. Well done. Point proven. You're both bigoted AND stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 You can't discriminate as a business. End of story. Perhaps the law show be just that, but as an individual person you have freedom to trade with who you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 The baker didn't do business with someone on the grounds of their sexuality, and thus it is discrimination. If you want to pick who you bake cakes for, don't run a public enterprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altus Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Perhaps the law show be just that, but as an individual person you have freedom to trade with who you wish. That wouldn't work. What happens when a business isn't allowed to discriminate but everyone who works for that business, as would be the case here, does want to discriminate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 No, because that's a normal relationship. Anyway it's not the relationship, but the message on the cake that they objected to. And the bolded part is why this is a case. It is a good thing to try this, it opens up dialogue and I am fairly certain that is the point from those taking it to court. Let's take this analogy a step further: I am not going to employ you, you are gay and I am Christian. It is a slippery slope. Not only that, it is a pathetic and invented slope, invented by Christians who feel they need to make a point but don't actually understand the expression: God created all human beings as equal. In fact, I challenge anybody to find me a quote where the bible dismisses gay relations. A small bible study: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28 "Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all." Colossians 3:9 - 11 "So Peter opened his mouth and said: "Truly I understand that God shows no partiality" (Acts: 10:34) I went to a Catholic primary with a very liberal priest in charge (and no, he did not touch us up): he made a point of ensuring that we all saw everybody as equal, regardless of what they believed or how they acted. I am not religious, but that is one lesson I will never forget. Using the bible for bigotry is as bad as using the Quran to do so, yet those always quipping about all Muslims are "extremist Muslims" are quite happy to slag off gay-rights on here. Have a look at the contradicting message you are broadcasting. Final one: "I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; very pleasant have you been to me; your love to me was extraordinary, surpassing the love of women." (2 Samuel 1 : 26) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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