Hate and violence towards immigrants is wrong but understandable

[chem1st]

Hate and violence towards immigrants is wrong but understandable.

 

"They are coming here taking our jobs"

 

"They are coming here taking our benefits"

 

"They are taking our housing"

 

"They are undercutting our wages"

 

These sayings are often said and repeated. They are to a degree true. Immigrants do take jobs, claim benefits, occupy artificially scarce housing and bring down wages.

 

They don't do this because they want to lower the living standards of the people in the country they emigrate to, they do it to better themselves, or more often just to sustain themselves.

 

They can be easily scapegoated and the divide in the working class that results, allows for the problems to remain instead of be addressed.

 

We see groups form to protest against immigration, because of the resulting decline in living standards faced by the host natives in the lower orders, the exploited in the host country face additional pressures in life, there is increased competition for the 'scraps'; the poorly paid jobs, the lowest quality housing, meagre benefits and forms of charity available to help the poor.

 

There is also a formation of counter protest groups. Instead of attempting to address the concerns of those in the host country that have resulted, the left wing (sic) is manipulated into opposing outright the groups protesting, and many of the very valid concerns are ignored.

 

People need to understand that many of the concerns people have are valid, and that people can be easily manipulated into hate, and for that hate to lead to violence. Such hate and violence is wrong, but it is understandable.

 

To tackle it, the hate and violence shouldn't be opposed for the sake of it. The reasons why it exist remain, and it won't go away unless the underlying causes are tackled.

 

Low wages and poor working conditions due to an abundance of unorganised people unable to organise and enforce rights and demand better rights and conditions need to be tackled.

 

If the likes of the EDL and UAF got together and started protesting together against the living & working conditions of the poorest, things would have to change for the better.

 

When groups like the EDL and UAF are busy protesting against each other, the poor living & working conditions flourish.

 

When the unemployed are forced to compete for the most insecure and poorly paid labour, and the ranks of the unemployed include natives and immigrants, the best way to ensure the unemployed do not organise and force a change which would better themselves, is to make sure they are fighting among each other.

 

A lot of the hate and violence is understandable. But it won't achieve anything.

 

To stop it, people need to acknowledge that it is understandable.

 

Then instead of opposing it for the sake of it, they need to tackle the underlying concerns and educate and organise people to tackle the problems which allow for immigrants and others to be easily scapegoated.

[EUCLID 11]

Rather long winded but accurate. The hate is manipulated and cleverly orchestrated, an old political trick. The current right wing, the Tory's and UKIP thankfully are not very skilled at it, a of of us can see through it. Trouble is the number of people who believe the hatemongers actually outnumber the ones who don't.

Hence the rapid rise of UKIP.

[tinfoilhat]

So, to review, we need to pay unskilled jobs more money in the hope we entice the British underclass of benefits and into work. Obviously that's going to leave a bigger gap between those in work in those not work but there you go. Keeps dem foriners from terkin er jerbs!!!

[Bonzo77]

So, to review, we need to pay unskilled jobs more money in the hope we entice the British underclass of benefits and into work. Obviously that's going to leave a bigger gap between those in work in those not work but there you go. Keeps dem foriners from terkin er jerbs!!!

 

Are all the British underclass on benefits? I think the number of British people who are on long term benefits and don't want to work is actually quite a small number of people.

 

There will always be a minority who choose to live on benefits, it's a sad side effect of the welfare system.

[tinfoilhat]

Are all the British underclass on benefits? I think the number of British people who are on long term benefits and don't want to work is actually quite a small number of people.

 

There will always be a minority who choose to live on benefits, it's a sad side effect of the welfare system.

 

Yeah, I think the underclass don't work. All of them. That's not to say all unemployed are the underclass, not by a long chalk. And there's a lot of jobs been created that Eastern Europeans etc have come over here and taken because British people won't do them. A minimum wage job is a minimum wage job. Brits do some of them, foreigners do some of them. No problem with that. Thing is when we have polish plumbers doing the job (as I understand it) cheaper than their British counterparts which drives down wages.

 

There are massive problems with our benefits system. The days where you could do a few days or a few months and then jump back onto benefits are long long gone. I wouldn't blame an unemployed person for turning down a months work only to wait two weeks for his wages then another 4 weeks to get their benefits back.

[Bonzo77]

Yeah, I think the underclass don't work. All of them. That's not to say all unemployed are the underclass, not by a long chalk. And there's a lot of jobs been created that Eastern Europeans etc have come over here and taken because British people won't do them. A minimum wage job is a minimum wage job. Brits do some of them, foreigners do some of them. No problem with that. Thing is when we have polish plumbers doing the job (as I understand it) cheaper than their British counterparts which drives down wages.

 

There are massive problems with our benefits system. The days where you could do a few days or a few months and then jump back onto benefits are long long gone. I wouldn't blame an unemployed person for turning down a months work only to wait two weeks for his wages then another 4 weeks to get their benefits back.

 

I don't think they're all out of work.

[tinfoilhat]

I don't think they're all out of work.

 

If they worked they'd be working class wouldn't they? They are trying the pay their way but struggling. But go on, humour me, where do the underclass (and all the connotations that word attracts) work?

[tzijlstra]

No mention of highly educated immigrants that help keep this country competitive in a global economy?

 

You are right though chemist. The dumb are being played against each other, it isn't unlike a persecution except that people aren't seeing it like that. Yet.

 

Wait until the economy properly crashes, the low skill economic migrants will leave and yet somehow a way will be found to blame 'foreigners' at which point all are fair game, from Pakistanis who are third/fourth generation to people that use their voice to explain what is happening.

 

I have been saying on here for years that it is the tone of the dialogue that is worrying.

[Mecky]

Rather long winded but accurate. The hate is manipulated and cleverly orchestrated, an old political trick. The current right wing, the Tory's and UKIP thankfully are not very skilled at it, a of of us can see through it. Trouble is the number of people who believe the hatemongers actually outnumber the ones who don't.

Hence the rapid rise of UKIP.

 

And propagated by the rightwing press. When the economy is down the drain, like it is now, people always look to blame someone else and generally it's migrants and the unemployed

[ukdobby]

There was a programme on tv the other week about immigration,8 people,4 English(2 from Asian backgrounds)1 Latvian,1 Polish,1 Somalian mother with 4 kids,can't remember the other but the Somalian mother was the only one what wouldn't mix and says its the UKs duty to keep her in benefits,the rest worked and the only 2 bitter people was the 2 Asian people,the 2 other Brits were quite happy with immigration..