Hate and violence towards immigrants is wrong but understandable

[andil]

Hate and violence towards immigrants is wrong but understandable.

 

"They are coming here taking our jobs"

 

"They are coming here taking our benefits"

 

"They are taking our housing"

 

"They are undercutting our wages"

 

These sayings are often said and repeated. They are to a degree true. Immigrants do take jobs, claim benefits, occupy artificially scarce housing and bring down wages.

 

They don't do this because they want to lower the living standards of the people in the country they emigrate to, they do it to better themselves, or more often just to sustain themselves.

 

They can be easily scapegoated and the divide in the working class that results, allows for the problems to remain instead of be addressed.

 

We see groups form to protest against immigration, because of the resulting decline in living standards faced by the host natives in the lower orders, the exploited in the host country face additional pressures in life, there is increased competition for the 'scraps'; the poorly paid jobs, the lowest quality housing, meagre benefits and forms of charity available to help the poor.

 

There is also a formation of counter protest groups. Instead of attempting to address the concerns of those in the host country that have resulted, the left wing (sic) is manipulated into opposing outright the groups protesting, and many of the very valid concerns are ignored.

 

People need to understand that many of the concerns people have are valid, and that people can be easily manipulated into hate, and for that hate to lead to violence. Such hate and violence is wrong, but it is understandable.

 

To tackle it, the hate and violence shouldn't be opposed for the sake of it. The reasons why it exist remain, and it won't go away unless the underlying causes are tackled.

 

Low wages and poor working conditions due to an abundance of unorganised people unable to organise and enforce rights and demand better rights and conditions need to be tackled.

 

If the likes of the EDL and UAF got together and started protesting together against the living & working conditions of the poorest, things would have to change for the better.

 

When groups like the EDL and UAF are busy protesting against each other, the poor living & working conditions flourish.

 

When the unemployed are forced to compete for the most insecure and poorly paid labour, and the ranks of the unemployed include natives and immigrants, the best way to ensure the unemployed do not organise and force a change which would better themselves, is to make sure they are fighting among each other.

 

A lot of the hate and violence is understandable. But it won't achieve anything.

 

To stop it, people need to acknowledge that it is understandable.

 

Then instead of opposing it for the sake of it, they need to tackle the underlying concerns and educate and organise people to tackle the problems which allow for immigrants and others to be easily scapegoated.

 

Groups that protest against immigration are in fact protesting against government policy and not immigrants, I'm not sure why you included the EDL because they protest against Islamic extremism and the UAF protest against the EDL.

[Bonzo77]

If they worked they'd be working class wouldn't they? They are trying the pay their way but struggling. But go on, humour me, where do the underclass (and all the connotations that word attracts) work?

 

Under class doesn't mean unemployed. In my opinion, there's only a working class. Some work, some don't.

[tinfoilhat]

Under class doesn't mean unemployed. In my opinion, there's only a working class. Some work, some don't.

 

I know, you said that. I asked what sort of jobs you think the underclass do.

 

I also said that I don't think all of the unemployed can be classed as the underclass - not by a long chalk

[Eater Sundae]

Yeah, I think the underclass don't work. All of them. That's not to say all unemployed are the underclass, not by a long chalk. And there's a lot of jobs been created that Eastern Europeans etc have come over here and taken because British people won't do them. A minimum wage job is a minimum wage job. Brits do some of them, foreigners do some of them. No problem with that. Thing is when we have polish plumbers doing the job (as I understand it) cheaper than their British counterparts which drives down wages.

 

There are massive problems with our benefits system. The days where you could do a few days or a few months and then jump back onto benefits are long long gone. I wouldn't blame an unemployed person for turning down a months work only to wait two weeks for his wages then another 4 weeks to get their benefits back.

 

Re bib. Thankfully, I've been lucky enough to have never been in this position, so I don't know the reality - all I've heard is anecdotal.

 

However, if this is the case, then I think the Government should address it. They should make it as easy as possible for unemployed people to take temporary jobs, without disincentives like this. 1 month's work might not be ideal, and will never be as good as permanent employment, but it is better than no work at all.

 

Even a little bit of work gives the employee a chance to prove their ability, helps with their self respect, helps give them something to get up for in a morning, and may help them get a more permanent job in future by increasing their skills and exposure to potential employers. The system should make this as easy and painless as possible.

 

There should, IMO, be positive incentives to employers to take on people, and no inbuilt disincentives to put people off from taking these jobs.

[Obelix]

And propagated by the rightwing press. When the economy is down the drain, like it is now

 

Only in Meckyland could a growing economy with low inflation, falling unemployment and rising business confidence be called "down the drain" :hihi:

[Bonzo77]

I know, you said that. I asked what sort of jobs you think the underclass do.

 

I also said that I don't think all of the unemployed can be classed as the underclass - not by a long chalk

 

Sorry, I thought you were referring to the underclass as all being unemployed.

 

I don't believe in the use of the word, for a start. Someone who is underclass can be in a low paid job, such as an admin worker on min wage or someone who can only work part time due to child care issues, single parents etc. who will never be in a position where they can make savings or even think about buying property or even affording private rent.

 

(we might have different views on the definition of the word?)

[Mecky]

Only in Meckyland could a growing economy with low inflation, falling unemployment and rising business confidence be called "down the drain" :hihi:

 

How's the AAA rating?

[Bonzo77]

Only in Meckyland could a growing economy with low inflation, falling unemployment and rising business confidence be called "down the drain" :hihi:

 

Is unemployment falling because people are finding full time permanent work? Also sounds like people with benefits sanctions are not included in the figures too.

 

yes the economy is growing, but only for a select few.

[tinfoilhat]

 

yes the economy is growing, but only for a select few.

 

Rhubarb............

[Obelix]

How's the AAA rating?

 

You've still to answer questions about school playing fields, the economy halving in march and troops in Syria first Mecky.

 

---------- Post added 10-11-2014 at 23:55 ----------

 

Is unemployment falling because people are finding full time permanent work? Also sounds like people with benefits sanctions are not included in the figures too.

 

yes the economy is growing, but only for a select few.

 

No it's growing for everyone actually....