Wheelchair users and prams on public transport, whose priority

[martok]

And the rest of the sentence

 

 

That's the really bizarre bit.

 

The idea that arriving at the stop first gives a pushchair user the right to usurp the disabled space in the bus.

 

---------- Post added 19-11-2014 at 16:07 ----------

 

Because she's chosen to be a parent, and they haven't chosen to be disabled.

Because we make accommodations for the disabled because life is already difficult enough for them, and that isn't true for parents.

 

Or parents could live with the consequences of the life choices they've made and stop expecting everyone else to accommodate them instead.

 

Does it say in the parent handbook that parents with three very young children can only use public transport if no one else wants to use it? The solution to the problem is easy to solve, take some seats out and make able bodied people stand. And how do you know that the disable person isn't disable because they chose to climb a cliff without safety equipment, or chose to drive a car at high speed in poor weather conditions, in both cases it would be their fault that they are disabled.

 

---------- Post added 19-11-2014 at 17:03 ----------

 

I'm not certainly not anti-child. I'm pro-child! I'm anti-self-entitled parents who honestly believe their poor organisational choices grant them to right to refuse public transport to disabled people. If anything I feel sorry for the poor children they travel with, given that they have to be raised by such selfish people.

 

What poor organisational choices, they chose to have kids, chose a suitable pram and chose to take them on a bus that had a space in which a push chair could be parked. No doubt they would have waited for the next bus if that place was taken by someone else, but they shouldn't have to leave the bus just because someone else wants to use the space.

[Cheekster]

My thoughts exactly, Martok. If there was me and a wheelchair waiting at the same stop, then there is no doubt that I'd offer that place to them. But to expect parents in my circumstance to simply get off a bus, possibly in an unfamiliar place, is quite ridiculous.

[Snorbuckle]

What poor organisational choices, they chose to have kids, chose a suitable pram and chose to take them on a bus that had a space in which a push chair could be parked. No doubt they would have waited for the next bus if that place was taken by someone else, but they shouldn't have to leave the bus just because someone else wants to use the space.

 

?!?! Clearly it's not a suitable pram if they can't fold it down to allow a wheelchair user to use the wheelchair user spot?

[martok]

My thoughts exactly, Martok. If there was me and a wheelchair waiting at the same stop, then there is no doubt that I'd offer that place to them. But to expect parents in my circumstance to simply get off a bus, possibly in an unfamiliar place, is quite ridiculous.

 

I think some members are under the impression that people only use a bus to travel half a mile or so, so they think its easy for you to simply get off and walk. When you pay your fare you enter into a contract to be taken safely to your destination.

 

---------- Post added 19-11-2014 at 17:46 ----------

 

?!?! Clearly it's not a suitable pram if they can't fold it down to allow a wheelchair user to use the wheelchair user spot?

 

It probably can be folded down but what should they do with the three very young children whilst doing it?

[Snorbuckle]

Not the wheelchair user's or the bus driver's problem. I would now like to quote the relevant policies from the two prominent bus operators in Sheffield so you understand the contract that pram users agree to when they use these services.

 

First

 

Wheelchair users have priority use of the wheelchair space. If this is occupied with a buggy, standing passengers or otherwise full, and there is space elsewhere on the vehicle, the driver will ask that it is made free for a wheelchair user. Please note that the driver has no power to compel passengers to move in this way and is reliant upon the goodwill of the passengers concerned.

 

Technically you are allowed to refuse access to wheelchair users if you want, but I hope you'll notice that First consider this a lack of "goodwill" and I would like to think that that would shame you into thinking twice. Note that it's technically possible for a standing passenger to refuse access to a wheelchair user on First buses also!

 

Stagecoach

 

Subject to space being available and the discretion of the driver, we will carry small prams and unfolded buggies on low floor buses within the designated area but only when it is not required by a passenger in a wheelchair or approved mobility scooter (passengers in wheelchairs have absolute priority by law). Prams and buggies must not block the aisle of the vehicle at any time.

 

You are, however, required by law to ensure that the designated wheelchair space is made available if a customer wishes to board with a wheelchair (or, if no wheelchair user is travelling, a disabled buggy or approved mobility scooter).

 

You are required to co-operate in allowing proper use of the designated wheelchair space by vacating this space if it is required by a customer in a wheelchair (or, if no wheelchair user is travelling, a disabled buggy or approved mobility scooter) including repositioning small prams, folding any buggies and storing them in the luggage space. Failure to comply with this requirement will comprise a breach of Section 3 above and may lead to further action as set out in that Section.

 

This is the contract a pushchair user agrees to when they use a Stagecoach bus. It would be poor planning on their part to use a pushchair that is too large and cannot be folded adequately.

[martok]

Not the wheelchair user's or the bus driver's problem. I would now like to quote the relevant policies from the two prominent bus operators in Sheffield so you understand the contract that pram users agree to when they use these services.

 

First

 

 

 

Technically you are allowed to refuse access to wheelchair users if you want, but I hope you'll notice that First consider this a lack of "goodwill" and I would like to think that that would shame you into thinking twice. Note that it's technically possible for a standing passenger to refuse access to a wheelchair user on First buses also!

 

Stagecoach

 

 

 

This is the contract a pushchair user agrees to when they use a Stagecoach bus. It would be poor planning on their part to use a pushchair that is too large and cannot be folded adequately.

 

You didn't answer the question, what should the parent do with the three very small children after they have been taken out of the safety of the buggy.

 

Clearly in the case we are talking about there are no alternative spaces that can accommodate a double buggy which contains two very small children.

 

Its not poor planning because the contract clearly states that they can use the space if it is available.

[aliceBB]

Why is it that First drivers 'have no power to compel' passengers to vacate a wheelchair space yet Stagecoach drivers can do so?

[cgksheff]

Why is it that First drivers 'have no power to compel' passengers to vacate a wheelchair space yet Stagecoach drivers can do so?

 

This thread was sparked by the fact that First are now in the Appeal Court regarding a judgement made against them, last September, because they failed to require a pram to move for a wheelchair.

 

If they lose their appeal it is very likely that their policy will be altered.

 

http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/sites/default/files/pdf/firstbusjudgment.pdf

[Snorbuckle]

You didn't answer the question, what should the parent do with the three very small children after they have been taken out of the safety of the buggy.

 

Clearly in the case we are talking about there are no alternative spaces that can accommodate a double buggy which contains two very small children.

 

Its not poor planning because the contract clearly states that they can use the space if it is available.

 

I did answer the question, with my first sentence. The (Stagecoach) contract also clearly states that they must vacate the space for a wheelchair if necessary and thus the inability to do so indicates a failure to prepare for all reasonable eventualities.

[Plain Talker]

You people are rather bizarre. Regardless of that, I've never encountered a wheelchair on the bus, I find that most people who are in a wheelchair have a carer who drives.

 

I think that you'll find that they don't, necessarily.

 

---------- Post added 20-11-2014 at 00:24 ----------

 

Bizarre

Not really.Just that I think it would be arrogant to push in.

 

The disability training with the buses involves the etiquette that the wheelchair user is boarded first, to enable them to park-up in the wheelchair space, and be out of the way when the ambulant passengers board, (rather than have the wheelchair user trying to make their way through the other passengers, some of whom seem incapable of realising that the bus does not finish by the front wheel arches, and that they can actually move further down the bus, allowing any other passengers waiting behind them to also board the vehicle.

 

The etiquette for letting the wheelchair user disembark the bus, and deploying the ramp is, that they alight last, after the ambulant passengers have got off, for the same reasons as above, that they are not getting entangled with the other passengers who are alighting.

 

---------- Post added 20-11-2014 at 00:28 ----------

 

I'm not certainly not anti-child. I'm pro-child! I'm anti-self-entitled parents who honestly believe their poor organisational choices grant them to right to refuse public transport to disabled people. If anything I feel sorry for the poor children they travel with, given that they have to be raised by such selfish people.

 

Well said, snorbuckle. and, of course the sort of example they are setting their children by their "self-entitlement" in refusing to put their land-rover-sized pushchairs down. The point being made very well earlier in the thread, that there are more appropriately-sized, lighter, and more easily collapsed pushchairs on the market that would be far more practical for using when travelling, generally, let alone by bus.

 

---------- Post added 20-11-2014 at 00:32 ----------

 

You didn't answer the question, what should the parent do with the three very small children after they have been taken out of the safety of the buggy.

 

Clearly in the case we are talking about there are no alternative spaces that can accommodate a double buggy which contains two very small children.

 

Its not poor planning because the contract clearly states that they can use the space if it is available.

 

what does the wheelchair user do when they are on a bus with a pushchair handler who on the bus with an empty pram, (no child, not even one seated further back after climbing out of the pram) and they refuse to put the chair down, and place it in the luggage rack?