Wheelchair users and prams on public transport, whose priority

[chem1st]

Because otherwise, unlike the person in a wheelchair, there's an able bodied parent with it.

 

Although you are using the wrong word

 

 

Not a baby or child by definition.

 

"It" is a human being incapable of looking after itself, "it", if very young, is much more vulnerable than a disabled person, and could be quite easily killed by being left in the cold etc.

 

If anything, a child under one, should be given priority over a disabled person.

 

---------- Post added 15-12-2014 at 16:19 ----------

 

It seems, that with these spaces being in such short supply, that perhaps a booking system, for both wheelchairs and pushchairs might be something worth considering, until buses with extra fold-down seats and thus enough spaces to meet the demand for wheelchairs and pushchairs become available.

[Eater Sundae]

IMO the bus company is expecting others to make decisions on its behalf.

 

There's nothing to stop the bus company deciding on a method of meeting its equality obligation, and managing it through contracts when it issues tickets.

 

If it wished, the bus company could allocate a wheelchair space.

 

Then there are 2 options that come to mind.

 

1. Nobody else would be allowed to use it. Anyone with a pram would be required to use the dedicated pram area, or to fold their pram/pushchair and use a normal seat. Or wait for the next bus with a free pram bay.

 

OR,

 

2. If there is space (because no wheelchair users had got on), then anyone else would be free to use it, until such time as a wheelchair user got on. Then they would be required to move to give the space over to the wheelchair user. If there was nowhere else on the bus, then they would be required to get off. This would be part of the conditions of using the bus. If all the pram places were already taken when a pram user got on, they would either use the wheelchair space at the risk of being turned off the bus later, or wait for another bus, with a free pram bay.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Eater Sundae

[cgksheff]

 

There's nothing to stop the bus company deciding on a method of meeting its equality obligation, and managing it through contracts when it issues tickets.

.........

 

.

 

... as many other bus companies do.

[chem1st]

No one chooses to need a wheelchair.

 

 

This guy?

 

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/weird-wide-web/austrian-man-hans-url-saws-off-foot

 

An unemployed man in Austria almost died after sawing off his own foot and tossing it in the stove so he could keep his jobless benefits.

 

Hans Url, 56, had just learned that his benefits could be slashed if he did not accept work found for him and was scheduled for a medical exam later Monday to determine whether he was physically fit for work, the Austrian Times reported.

 

After his wife and son had left the house, Url positioned his left leg against an electric saw in the boiler room and severed his foot above the ankle, tossing it a wood stove to make sure doctors could not reattach it to his leg, Austrian broadcaster ORF reported.

 

Bleeding profusely and on the verge of death, Url called an ambulance.

 

Emergency staff found him covered in blood. They retrieved the foot from the fire, but it was too badly burned to be reattached, the Daily Mail reported.

 

And this guy?

[Plain Talker]

You already have.

 

Exactly what image were you trying to convey with this description and why?

 

Depends. Again, why do you insist on describing buggies as 'monster buggies?

 

Yes, they don't tend to fold and are a requirement for very young babies. In case you didn't know it would not be the safest thing to remove a days old baby from a carry cot to hold in your arms on a bus. If there was nowhere else to move to then I, for one, would not move. You, however, seem to think it is OK to expel a six hour old baby into the freezing cold in an area unfamiliar to the parent.

 

It doesn't take much wind to blow over a bag or catch hold of some of the lighter contents. Bear in mind on the day of posting we were experiencing 50-60mph gusts in Sheffield.

 

You think thieving scrotes are ridiculous? Your naivety is almost overwhelming.

 

You think a push chair and several bags of shopping somehow magically transport themselves from the pavement to the storage area? Rather several journeys would have to be made.

 

How is the disabled passengers disability the fault of a parent being forced into the cold and wet with a six hour old baby? How is the lack of provision of enough priority spaces the fault of the parent?

 

What about the baby you've just crippled? Sorry, the safety of my family trumps anybody else.

 

If you'd bothered to read the thread you would note I have only commented on shared wheelchair/buggy priority spaces. If you wish to move the discussion onto shared priority spaces for wheelchairs/pushchairs/pedestrians then make a separate post.

 

When there is nowhere to move to the only place is off. You are therefore an advocate of expelling six hour old babies into the freezing cold and wet miles from home in an area the parent is totally unfamiliar with.

 

jb

We are back to the same, empty, reductio ad absurdum argument

 

It comes to something when jessops are sending six hour old babies home, and even more so that they are being allowed home

a) on a bus, shock horror,

And

b) without a proper safety seat.

 

My grandchildren were not permited to leave the hospital without a car picking them up, nor without a safety seat.

 

Because the car belonged to my ex hubby, my grandchildren's grandfather, the hospital were going to refuse permission to leave the hospital.

 

Oh, what? There havent been any cases in the UK of a six hour old baby travelling home on a bus, let alone injured in a collision as a result of someone needing the wheelchair space over them?

Well that's that argument totally shown up for the tripe and national enquirer-esque cobblers that it is, then, isnt it?

[davyboy]

 

This guy?

 

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/weird-wide-web/austrian-man-hans-url-saws-off-foot

 

 

 

And this guy?

 

Over here he'd have been sanctioned for deliberately making himself unavailable for work.

[Cyclone]

"It" is a human being incapable of looking after itself, "it", if very young, is much more vulnerable than a disabled person, and could be quite easily killed by being left in the cold etc.

 

If anything, a child under one, should be given priority over a disabled person.

 

---------- Post added 15-12-2014 at 16:19 ----------

 

It seems, that with these spaces being in such short supply, that perhaps a booking system, for both wheelchairs and pushchairs might be something worth considering, until buses with extra fold-down seats and thus enough spaces to meet the demand for wheelchairs and pushchairs become available.

 

IT is tiny and has a full time carer with it, who is capable of carrying it.

 

A booking system? Meanwhile, back in the real world.

 

---------- Post added 16-12-2014 at 07:34 ----------

 

You already have.

 

Exactly what image were you trying to convey with this description and why?

 

Depends. Again, why do you insist on describing buggies as 'monster buggies?

 

Yes, they don't tend to fold and are a requirement for very young babies. In case you didn't know it would not be the safest thing to remove a days old baby from a carry cot to hold in your arms on a bus. If there was nowhere else to move to then I, for one, would not move. You, however, seem to think it is OK to expel a six hour old baby into the freezing cold in an area unfamiliar to the parent.

 

It doesn't take much wind to blow over a bag or catch hold of some of the lighter contents. Bear in mind on the day of posting we were experiencing 50-60mph gusts in Sheffield.

 

You think thieving scrotes are ridiculous? Your naivety is almost overwhelming.

 

You think a push chair and several bags of shopping somehow magically transport themselves from the pavement to the storage area? Rather several journeys would have to be made.

 

How is the disabled passengers disability the fault of a parent being forced into the cold and wet with a six hour old baby? How is the lack of provision of enough priority spaces the fault of the parent?

 

What about the baby you've just crippled? Sorry, the safety of my family trumps anybody else.

 

If you'd bothered to read the thread you would note I have only commented on shared wheelchair/buggy priority spaces. If you wish to move the discussion onto shared priority spaces for wheelchairs/pushchairs/pedestrians then make a separate post.

 

When there is nowhere to move to the only place is off. You are therefore an advocate of expelling six hour old babies into the freezing cold and wet miles from home in an area the parent is totally unfamiliar with.

 

jb

 

6 hour old babies are now on the bus, the bus that is entirely full, in a push chair that can't be folded.

 

Right, whatever.

 

You've clearly lost the thrust of the argument. The vast majority of people think that parents should move.

The only counter to this from the selfish is to make increasingly unlikely situations why they might not be able to.

 

Do what you like of course, but everyone knows why you're doing it and what you think.

[Ms Macbeth]

I had to transport my children over 40 years ago. When they were very small and in a pram, I walked. When the children were older, I used a small pushchair, which easily folded.

 

Most of my shopping then was done locally, the smaller child in the buggy, the older either walked or stood on the back (there was a little step). On the odd occasion I had to take them on a bus there were no arguments about who had priority, as there was no level access for prams or wheelchairs. That meant I had to fold the buggy before the bus arrived and carry it, or I didn't get on. Perhaps we were more trusting and society more caring then, but there was usually a kindly person who'd offer to help. Someone might fold the buggy and carry it on, or take the baby and hold the toddler while I folded it.

 

I accept times have changed, and most parents of small children now work as my children do. My grandchildren who live in a rural area went any distance by car, so their parents used a large buggy, and only bought a small one to take on holiday. My granddaughter in Sheffield however always had a foldable buggy as she often went to nursery by bus. Her mum recognised that it would be impossible (and quite selfish) to try and get a large pram on board especially at peak times. If parents are relying on public transport, then surely common sense has to come into play.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Ms Macbeth

[barleycorn]

We are back to the same, empty, reductio ad absurdum argument

 

It comes to something when jessops are sending six hour old babies home, and even more so that they are being allowed home

You'd have a point if you weren't completely and utterly wrong. Barring complications they look to be sending you home with your baby within six hours, you can leave as early as two-three hours after giving birth.

If you have a normal birth you should be able to leave with your baby within two – three hours.

https://www.kch.nhs.uk/Doc/pl%20-%20396.5%20-%20going%20home%20after%20your%20baby%20is%20born.pdf

a) on a bus, shock horror,

And

b) without a proper safety seat.

Which is irrelevant not only because six hours is plenty of time to go home by car and then back out again by bus but also since the one of the main reasons for not taking a baby out of their carry cot (or even car seat) on public transport is because young babies are unable to support their own head. For reasons which should be obvious it would be inadvisable to remove them from their carry cot when travelling by bus.

It is therefore entirely possible for a new mum to find herself on a bus with her new born baby* in a carry cot occupying the dedicated wheelchair/push chair space.

 

Oh, what? There havent been any cases in the UK of a six hour old baby travelling home on a bus, let alone injured in a collision as a result of someone needing the wheelchair space over them?

Well that's that argument totally shown up for the tripe and national enquirer-esque cobblers that it is, then, isnt it?

Your argument is flawed. It would be inadvisable to remove a baby from its mode of conveyance when travelling by bus for at least the first six weeks of its life. Or do you think new mothers stay at home for the first six weeks refusing to leave the house? Perhaps there are no cases of injury (unsupported assertion) because parents quite rightly refuse to move from the space or balk at using public transport entirely for fear that they will be turfed off in the middle of nowhere.

 

Personally I'm glad you are not the Grandparent to my child as you seem to treat the health and safety of newborns with scant regard.

 

jb

 

* Not that it matters if it is newborn, a baby is unable to support its own head for several weeks.

 

---------- Post added 16-12-2014 at 11:45 ----------

 

IT is tiny and has a full time carer with it, who is capable of carrying it.

 

A booking system? Meanwhile, back in the real world.

 

---------- Post added 16-12-2014 at 07:34 ----------

 

 

6 hour old babies are now on the bus, the bus that is entirely full, in a push chair that can't be folded.

It is quite feasible yes, and as already explained above the reasons for not taking a six hour baby out of its carry cot or pram apply for the first several weeks of its life. Are you somehow under the delusion that new mothers have no need of public transport during the first several weeks of their babies life?

 

Right, whatever.

 

You've clearly lost the thrust of the argument. The vast majority of people think that parents should move.

The only counter to this from the selfish is to make increasingly unlikely situations why they might not be able to.

Given that I have only ever stated that the parent should refuse under circumstance where the pram cannot be folded it is not beyond the realm o imagination to think that I would then describe such situations. A baby in the fist few weeks of life is such a situation.

Do what you like of course, but everyone knows why you're doing it and what you think.

If you'd bothered to read the thread you would know I don't travel by bus.

You still haven't explained why you think it is OK to expel a new born baby from a bus into the cold and wet in an area totally unfamiliar to the parent.

 

jb

[Cyclone]

I haven't explained something that I never said.

 

What a surprise.