How long until Cannabis is legal in the UK?

[Dark Night]

It's not saying that. It's saying that in people who take cannabis that the rates of psychosis are higher. It is not saying that there is proof that the cannabis causes the psychosis..

Really Hmmmmmmmmmmm:suspect:

[sgtkate]

Really Hmmmmmmmmmmm:suspect:

 

Yes. Really. Go read it. The actual report and not just the BBC headline.

[Dark Night]

Oh I give up. This is like talking to a toddler. No-one is saying that cannabis definitely doesn't cause psychosis or even that it may cause 24% increase in it. What people are repeatedly trying to get into your head is that the report does NOT at any point AT ALL say that smoking cannabis directly relates to an increase in psychosis diagnoses by 24%. It simple says that of people tested who admitted to smoking cannabis there was a 24% higher rate of psychosis than in those who said they didn't smoke it. Read the f'ing report before I head butt the wall in frustration.

 

As you seem to be failing to grasp the basics of causality, let me put it this way. Of people diagnosed with psychosis, 24% more of them admitted to smoking cannabis than those without a psychosis diagnosis. Which could be taken to show that people who are already suffering psychosis choose to smoke more weed.

 

So you agree that there is a high probability of suffering psychosis due to smoking cannabis.

 

---------- Post added 16-02-2015 at 14:56 ----------

 

Makes you wonder if any of those supporting cannabis use and playing down the report on the dangers of cannabis are users or dealers. Not that I'm accusing just wondering.

 

---------- Post added 16-02-2015 at 14:58 ----------

 

Yes. Really. Go read it. The actual report and not just the BBC headline.

 

Why do you support cannabis use and play down the report by Kings College. Have you got an ulterior motive?

[sgtkate]

So you agree that there is a high probability of suffering psychosis due to smoking cannabis.

 

I neither agree nor disagree. There is no evidence even way. There is a definite potential of it causing psychosis, just like there is potential of any drug that has mind altering affects to cause psychosis after prolonged usage. Take alcohol for example. Far, far higher numbers of mental illness is reported in people who drink heavily than those who don't. But the part you aren't seeing is that a large number of people who drink heavily do so to escape something in their life. Maybe an abusive past, lost of a relative, job struggles etc. So there is a high chance that many of those people who drink heavily are ALREADY suffering from a mental illness that encourages them to drink more. This report into cannabis usage should be viewed in the same manner, that perhaps people who smoke lots of high strength cannabis are using it as an escape mechanism, exactly like heavy drinkers.

 

I don't think anyone here is saying that heavy drug abuse of either legal or illegal drugs is to be encouraged.

 

---------- Post added 16-02-2015 at 15:00 ----------

 

Why do you support cannabis use and play down the report by Kings College. Have you got an ulterior motive?

 

Why does someone who can articulately show scientific reasoning to disagree with you in a polite and open manner have to have an ulterior motive? What ulterior motive do you suggest I have?

[Phanerothyme]

No it says that of people who smoked potent cannabis there was a 24% increase in psychosis. I'm not being a pedant. There is a huge difference in what you are saying to what the report says.

 

It can mean that people who are already more likely to suffer psychosis smoke cannabis.

 

It can also mean that cannabis causes a higher rate of psychosis in it's smokers.

 

It can mean a combination of those 2 things.

 

I don't smoke it, tried it a few times as a teenager and didn't really like it so I'm not covering or arguing for anything other than for people to be far more aware and understanding of causality and being able to read scientific reports correctly.

 

This is a metanalysis, and merely reinforces what is already known.

 

1. High THC/Low CBD strains of cannabis (aka "Skunk") are more likely to contribute to psychosis.

 

2. Younger users are at a higher risk of developing psychoses.

 

3. Younger users (15 and below) who regularly consume high THC/Low CBD strains are tripling the risk of developing psychoses.

 

However it's also worth remembering that:

 

1. High THC/Low CBD strains are the result of rushing cannabis to market without proper curing, where the THC/CBD balance changes. Also the desire for a more highly concentrated and potent product is the result of prohibition (c.f opium - heroin; coca- cocaine hydrochloride, Qat - mephedrone, etc).

 

2. The incidence of psychosis in "mature" cannabis users who began using in adulthood is much lower, and comparable with the base rate.

 

3. A legal market in cannabis would have to include the THC/CBD ratio of every harvest, giving users the ability to make an informed choice, rather than taking their chances on untested, possibly adulterated material.

 

4. A regulated market in cannabis would (and has) reduce the number of younger users. As things currently stand, there's no lower age limit for obtainability.

 

5. As the Arnault study referenced in this metanalysis concludes:

 

Cannabis use appears to be neither a sufficient nor a necessary cause for psychosis. It is a component cause, part of a complex constellation of factors leading to psychosis.

 

6. The incidence of psychosis and schizophrenia in the UK has remained stable, in the face of fluctuating cannabis consumption figures.

 

7. Moderate, informed use of cannabis is largely benign in effect, and most of the 6% of UK residents using it, do so with comparatively little negative impact.

[*_ash_*]

Just been given out that research by King's College London shows that the use of skunk type Cannabis is the cause of 24% of new psychosis cases.

 

Just been given out that research by King's College London shows that the use of skunk type Cannabis is the cause of 24% of new psychosis cases

 

There's no evidence that decriminalisation increases levels of use or addiction.

Cannabis is less addictive than nicotine, alcohol is addictive as well, yet I don't worry about my family becoming addicted to it.

 

Just been given out that research by King's College London shows that the use of skunk type Cannabis is the cause of 24% of new psychosis cases

 

All in one post, then continues with more repeats and loaded questions

 

Are you Diane Abbott by any chance?

[sgtkate]

This is a metanalysis, and merely reinforces what is already known.

 

1. High THC/Low CBD strains of cannabis (aka "Skunk") are more likely to contribute to psychosis.

 

2. Younger users are at a higher risk of developing psychoses.

 

3. Younger users (15 and below) who regularly consume high THC/Low CBD strains are tripling the risk of developing psychoses.

 

However it's also worth remembering that:

 

1. High THC/Low CBD strains are the result of rushing cannabis to market without proper curing, where the THC/CBD balance changes. Also the desire for a more highly concentrated and potent product is the result of prohibition (c.f opium - heroin; coca- cocaine hydrochloride, Qat - mephedrone, etc).

 

2. The incidence of psychosis in "mature" cannabis users who began using in adulthood is much lower, and comparable with the base rate.

 

3. A legal market in cannabis would have to include the THC/CBD ratio of every harvest, giving users the ability to make an informed choice, rather than taking their chances on untested, possibly adulterated material.

 

4. A regulated market in cannabis would (and has) reduce the number of younger users. As things currently stand, there's no lower age limit for obtainability.

 

5. As the Arnault study referenced in this metanalysis concludes:

 

 

 

6. The incidence of psychosis and schizophrenia in the UK has remained stable, in the face of fluctuating cannabis consumption figures.

 

7. Moderate, informed use of cannabis is largely benign in effect, and most of the 6% of UK residents using it, do so with comparatively little negative impact.

 

Thank you for your knowledgeable answer. And I'm aware that may sound sarcastic through text, but I assure you it's genuine!

[Phanerothyme]

I'm sorry SgtKate, I replied to your post unintentionally - it was directed at Crimescene and Darknight, and not intended as a criticism of you in the slightest!

[Cyclone]

Have you read the read the report by Kings college London?

 

---------- Post added 16-02-2015 at 14:43 ----------

 

Oh is that what it controls Pshycosis Hmmm

 

---------- Post added 16-02-2015 at 14:47 ----------

 

why is it "Essentially a red Herring" have you any documentation to disprove it?

 

I'll ask again, do you understand what we're talking about with regards to causality?

 

---------- Post added 16-02-2015 at 15:59 ----------

 

Really Hmmmmmmmmmmm:suspect:

 

Yes, really.

 

If you don't understand that then you should probably take a class in critical thinking, or maybe science 101.

 

---------- Post added 16-02-2015 at 16:00 ----------

 

So you agree that there is a high probability of suffering psychosis due to smoking cannabis.

 

No.

You've been told and you apparently don't understand that the report does NOT say that. It makes no attempt to attribute causality.

[Magilla]

Smoking potent cannabis was linked to 24% of new psychosis cases analysed by Kings College London.

 

If you read the study, it clearly states that causality is assumed! There is no link.

 

It could mean that people who are psychotic self medicate with cannabis.

 

It also offers no explanation for the psychosis of the other 76%? Maybe the 24% have the same condition, and the cannabis is incidental?

 

---------- Post added 16-02-2015 at 16:33 ----------

 

So suffering psyhcosis after use of cannabis is a normal condition:huh:

 

Did anyone suggest it was? The report certainly doesn't. The media headline might, but the report doesn't.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Magilla