Entrepreneur or a bit of a scallywag?

[charmer]

interested to hear your take on Sir Richard Branson?????? genuine question

 

---------- Post added 23-11-2014 at 12:09 ----------

 

 

this country needs entrepreneurs at any cost, sorry to burst your "airey fairy land " bubble real life real business there are always winners and losers there cannot be a level playing field ever! if you had ever run a business you would know that.

by the way avoiding tax is not illegal!

 

We do not need entrepreneurs "at any cost", what a silly thing to say. Take this to the fullest extent, would you defend someone running a hit man business by saying "hey he is an entrepreneur and rules are made to be broken" (as you did earlier in the thread).

 

No one said avoiding tax was illegal.

 

To use your phrase, if you had ever run a business you would know that if you break the rules of the environment you trade in, there will be consequences. It seems it is you that lives in an "airy fairy land" if you believe that breaking the rules can be justified in the pursuit of individual profit. Just think about the sort of society we would live in if everyone thought like you. Who needs the NHS? Surely we should put profit 1st! Social welfare? No, profit profit profit.

[ab6262]

We do not need entrepreneurs "at any cost", what a silly thing to say. Take this to the fullest extent, would you defend someone running a hit man business by saying "hey he is an entrepreneur and rules are made to be broken" (as you did earlier in the thread).

 

No one said avoiding tax was illegal.

 

To use your phrase, if you had ever run a business you would know that if you break the rules of the environment you trade in, there will be consequences. It seems it is you that lives in an "airy fairy land" if you believe that breaking the rules can be justified in the pursuit of individual profit. Just think about the sort of society we would live in if everyone thought like you. Who needs the NHS? Surely we should put profit 1st! Social welfare? No, profit profit profit.

 

oh but we do need them at any cost, ok maybe i should have said "reasonable" cost, how silly of me not to realise someone would bring in an extreme example:rolleyes: hit men :hihi:.

tax avoidance

er alicebb and others have implied it or at least said its immoral which it isnt.

 

and yes i have run a number of successful businesses with varying degrees of profitability and i can tell you that rules are broken and bent and sometimes the consequences are a price worth paying thats business, now you may not like it but thats how it is.

i didnt mention the NHS?? although i believe that should have unlimited funding instead of sending money to foreign lands and funding the worlds waifs and strays and as for the welfare state that needs streamlining and run at break even, which could be done easily.

judging by your posts you sir live in airey fairy liberal land and not the real world!

[charmer]

oh but we do need them at any cost, ok maybe i should have said "reasonable" cost, how silly of me not to realise someone would bring in an extreme example:rolleyes: hit men :hihi:.

tax avoidance

er alicebb and others have implied it or at least said its immoral which it isnt.

 

and yes i have run a number of successful businesses with varying degrees of profitability and i can tell you that rules are broken and bent and sometimes the consequences are a price worth paying thats business, now you may not like it but thats how it is.

i didnt mention the NHS?? although i believe that should have unlimited funding instead of sending money to foreign lands and funding the worlds waifs and strays and as for the welfare state that needs streamlining and run at break even, which could be done easily.

judging by your posts you sir live in airey fairy liberal land and not the real world!

 

There was no implication that I can see regarding the legality of tax avoidance. Morality is subjective so we could argue about that till the cows come home (I personally do not believe it to be immoral, I would do the exact same).

 

You seem to be confused. I know rules are bent and broken, I have broken a good number of rules in order to make money. I understand completely that the price is sometimes worth paying, you say you do, yet you are angry that the little lad is being asked to pay his price. Do I think temporary suspension form school is a price worth paying for £14,000? Absolutely! Do I think the young lad should have to pay the price? Absolutely!

 

You didn't mention the NHS, but you did imply that profit is king, I am pointing out that although profit is important, it is not everything.

 

I used an extreme example as an easy and simple way to explain a point to you. Take a less extreme example if you like. Should I be able to buy a pig carcass and sell it as beef as it would mean a higher profit margin?

 

After all, no one would be hurt and rules are made to be broken (again, you actually said this!!).

 

I do not live in an airy fairy world, I live in the real world. What from this thread, or other threads, would make you believe that?

 

I have to say I feel it is you who lives in a strange world. One in which uninsured and unregulated traders can target children with their products. Do you genuinely feel that this should be tolerated?

[carosio]

The situation is interesting. If he's under 16 then he can't have his own bank account, let alone a business account, and whether or not he is liable to receive a self-assessment tax form, NI etc. Perhaps his parents are responsible (in law) for any tax on the profits?

[Chris_Sleeps]

If he is already breaking the rules, school rules, how long will it be before he is the type of entrepreneur who will be avoiding his tax and trying to get away with paying his employees less than the minimum wage?

He's got no National Insurance no. He's already a tax dodger.

 

Arrest him - I say.

[aliceBB]

Ask yourself - honestly - knowing what you know about his methods of making a profit, would you employ him when he leaves school? I wouldn't. I'd always be wondering whether he was being underhand about breaking the rules and making money for himself, as well as his wages. Or not declaring everything he'd sold.

 

Most employers want people with initiative, but who are loyal and trustworthy. On those criteria, he scores only one out of three.

[aliceBB]

I would, He shows that he can make money... funnily enough employers like that.

Only if the employees are honest and hand all the money over...

Anyway he's probably gunna have his own business with what he's showing us.

Doing what, exactly? He has only succeeded up to now because he has a captive market of children and because he has no competition (because what he is doing isn't allowed and more intelligent would-be entrepreneurs of his age are too busy doing their GCSEs and staying out of trouble).

Personally I would employ hard working people over anything else. Nowt worse than the work-shy.

But what he is doing isn't hard work. He simply buys a lot of sweets on his way to school, and sells them to a ready crowd at breaktime. The most taxing part of it is organising the lookouts so he doesn't get busted. Seriously, it is not hard work.

 

Think your been abit harsh to him, at only 15 he's done quiet well.

I disagree completely. How is being sneaky and greedy 'doing quite well'?

You don't have to get super high marks in school, go off to uni then try to pay off the debt to be a success in life

Perhaps not. But if you don't, then you need to be a bit special and above all you need to demonstrate that you are a grafter and honest. So far, he has shown no evidence of either.

[aliceBB]

How do you know its not hard work without doing it?

Because I had a child in my tutor group who did exactly the same thing (until he was suspended) and he explained to me how it worked and that the attraction was that it was 'easy money'. His argument was that he could make more in 20 mins by selling sweets than his mates earned in 8 hours doing a Saturday job. It doesn't involve long hours, physical labour, or tramping the streets, knocking on doors, ringing people up for hours trying to get a sale. It requires only a bit of brass neck and an indifference to rules. It is not difficult or onerous.

 

Why would the more ''intelligent'' Entrepreneurs doing there GCSE's and keeping out of trouble?

Because, unlike me laddo, they were able to take a long view, value their education and appreciate the longer term benefits of staying in school and having some respect for rules which were made for everyone's benefit.

 

I know I wasn't good in school (terrible in fact) I didn't get one GCSE and ive done / doing quiet well for myself, im on more money than some of my mates who are really really clever and have been off to Uni and got top marks, and now have only been able to get low paid jobs. Some are doing well like... Although I don't have £1000's worth of debt.

Good for you. But tbh those days are over, for the vast majority of school leavers.

 

Plus he's gunna use the money for Uni, you must agree with that?

How he plans to spend his ill-gotten gains is irrelevant, really. What I'm trying to challenge is the idea that somehow he is to be admired for his sense of 'enterprise'.

 

Would it be OK, then, for an 18 year old sixth former to buy cigarettes and sell them on at a profit to younger pupils in a school?

[aliceBB]

I'm not sure that 'empathy' has got much to do with it, really. We were asked our opinion of what this young man had done. Even if you are able to 'empathise' with his greed for making money regardless, it is still an ethical question and from any moral perspective, what he is doing is indefensible.

 

Perhaps someone who is impressed by the MO of this 15 year old would like to attempt to refute all the arguments I have put forward as to why such approbation would be misplaced. In particular, perhaps they would like to explain why it is a cause for celebration when a teenager breaks school rules for personal gain and why opportunistic profiteering regardless of the wider consequences is A Good Thing (in their view).

Edited November 23, 2014 by aliceBB

[MikeDaMouse]

We were asked our opinion of what this young man had done.

 

Ye that's what I did and I got completely slated, then someone trying to take the P**S

 

May as well not bother having an opinion on here