Cleveland, US. Police kill boy, 12

[aliceBB]

Unbelievable. A 12 year old with a toy gun is shot and killed by police because they didn't know whether it was real or not (he wasn't pointing it at anyone):

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30172433

 

This is partly to do with staggering police incompetence, but also a result of a culture in which it is assumed that 12 year olds may well be running around a school yard playing with a real gun.

Edited November 24, 2014 by aliceBB

[Andy1976]

http://news.sky.com/story/1379087/police-shoot-dead-12-year-old-holding-fake-gun

 

There's a photo of the gun on Sky - looks very real I have to say!

 

There's comment that it didn't have the orange end that fakes should have, suggesting it was a replica designed to look real perhaps? I'm not entirely sure that can be called a toy - I'd say it looks like a replica (toy to me is those really bad plastic things that are obviously not guns).

 

In a country so gun-obsessed that they can't see the mess their 2nd amendment is creating, I can see how the police officers were fearful. The person reporting the crime reported it being waved and pointed at people. The boy then grabbed at the gun, instead of raising his hands as instructed. What do the police do?

 

Horrible, horrible incident - shooting a child - but a sad reflection in my view on American society and its acceptance of deadly weapons.

[JFKvsNixon]

Unbelievable. A 12 year old with a toy gun is shot and killed by police because they didn't know whether it was real or not (he wasn't pointing it at anyone):

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30172433

 

This is partly to do with staggering police incompetence, but also a result of a culture in which it is assumed that 12 year olds may well be running around a school yard playing with a real gun.

 

Apparently the police ordered him to raise his hands, under gunpoint, and the 12 year old pulled the gun out of his waistband.

 

To be fair to the police, you're talking about having to make an instant decision. You have to remember that across the pond, young people have been on shooting sprees, so I'm struggling to see what else the police could have done?

 

The gun looked just like a real gun, it even had the orange safety indicator, which is there to differentiate it from a real gun, removed.

 

The lesson to learn here is, not to wave something that looks exactly like a fire arm at armed police.

[aliceBB]

 

The lesson to learn here is, not to wave something that looks exactly like a fire arm at armed police.

 

But the boy didn't wave it at the police:

 

Cleveland deputy police chief Ed Tomba said the boy was shot twice after pulling the gun from the waistband of his trousers.

 

The boy did not make any verbal threats nor point the gun towards the officers, Mr Tomba added. [bBC website]

[ukdobby]

But the boy didn't wave it at the police:

 

Cleveland deputy police chief Ed Tomba said the boy was shot twice after pulling the gun from the waistband of his trousers.

 

The boy did not make any verbal threats nor point the gun towards the officers, Mr Tomba added. [bBC website]

 

He was asked to put his hands up and pulled the gun out of his waistband,sorry but the police don't get a second chance if he fires,they did what they thought needed to be done.

[martok]

Unbelievable. A 12 year old with a toy gun is shot and killed by police because they didn't know whether it was real or not (he wasn't pointing it at anyone):

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30172433

 

This is partly to do with staggering police incompetence, but also a result of a culture in which it is assumed that 12 year olds may well be running around a school yard playing with a real gun.

 

A 12-year-old boy has been shot dead by police in the US city of Cleveland, after carrying what turned out to be a replica gun in a playground.

 

Police say an officer fired two shots at the boy after he failed to obey an order to raise his hands.

 

And if it had been a real gun with bullets and he had killed 12 other children I am sure people would be condemning the police for not preventing it.

[JFKvsNixon]

But the boy didn't wave it at the police:

 

Cleveland deputy police chief Ed Tomba said the boy was shot twice after pulling the gun from the waistband of his trousers.

 

The boy did not make any verbal threats nor point the gun towards the officers, Mr Tomba added. [bBC website]

 

OK a bad choice of words.

 

Maybe I should have said, do not reach for something that is indistinguishable from a firearm with your hands, when you are ordered to raise your hands by armed police.

 

It is a complete and utter tragedy, for everyone involved.

[martok]

OK a bad choice of words.

 

Maybe I should have said, do not reach for something that is indistinguishable from a firearm with your hands, when you are ordered to raise your hands by armed police.

 

It is a complete and utter tragedy, for everyone involved.

 

I agree and I'm sure the officer that fired the fatal shot will be wracked with guilt and possibly in need of counseling.

[aliceBB]

Even if it had been an adult, then the police's 'instinctive' response (given that they were not under direct threat and were presumably wearing body armour in any case) would still have been disproportionate.

 

The fact that it was a child makes it all the more appalling that (a) they were not told that the caller was unsure whether the gun was real or not and (b) that their first resort was to shoot to kill. Do they not have tazers? Are they not trained to wound and disable rather than kill, if they genuinely believe themselves to be in a life-threatening situation?

 

Presumably by the time the police arrived the yard was clear of children...so why could they not have backed off and tried to talked him down via a megaphone?

 

The problem with saying 'It's just tough. It's the risk you run if you run about with a replica gun which looks like a real one. There's nothing that can be done', is that you are putting the blame on the child, and not on the out-of-control, gun-obsessed mentality which allows this scenario to develop. 18 young people every day are shot dead in the US. When will they learn?

Edited November 24, 2014 by aliceBB

[martok]

Even if it had been an adult, then the police's 'instinctive' response (given that they were not under direct threat and were presumably wearing body armour in any case) would still have been disproportionate.

 

The fact that it was a child makes it all the more appalling that (a) they were not told that the caller was unsure whether the gun was real or not and (b) that their first resort was to shoot to kill. Do they not have tazers? Are they not trained to wound and disable rather than kill, if they genuinely believe themselves to be in a life-threatening situation?

 

Did all the children and civilians in that area also have body armour? if not then a single shot could kill them.

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2014 at 09:41 ----------

 

 

The problem with saying 'It's just tough. It's the risk you run if you run about with a replica gun which looks like a real one. There's nothing that can be done', is that you are putting the blame on the child, and not on the out-of-control, gun-obsessed mentality which allows this scenario to develop. 18 young people every day are shot dead in the US. When will they learn?

 

The sad realty is that is isn't unusual for children to use guns to kill other children.