Hidden leak issue

[tzijlstra]

Hi all,

 

Anybody with experience of plumbing? For a while now we have had water stains develop in the corners of two rooms. Above these rooms is the first floor bathroom and yesterday we discovered that when flushing that toilet a small amount of water (less than half a tea-cup) trickled down the small hole that has developed there.

 

Presumably this is the cause, but I am not sure whether this couldn't be caused by a severe case of condensation?

 

I just took the corner of the ceiling out around the hole and this is not directly underneath the pipe, there appears to be a plywood box surrounding the drain-pipe (or at least that is what my measurements tell me) but this is dry. I also wonder if a drainpipe on a toilet that leaked would only leak such a small amount, there is also no smell as far as I can tell with my smokers' nose, it appears to be clean water. The source of the water is along one of the wooden lattes used to hold the plasterboard in place (sorry, my builders vocabulary falls short in English).

 

Underneath this latte the plasterboard has rotted away (presumably over the years) and the water has worked its way through the plasterboard.

 

Is this a case of a small leak or of bad ventilation resulting in condensation building up?

 

I do suspect that some time ago in the bathroom on the second floor (directly above the first floor bathroom) we had a problem with the sealant in the shower and water could have come down from there, but that issue has been resolved.

 

I don't want to break away any more than I have to! Please help oh ye knowledgeable forum

[geared]

From your description a leak is more likely than condensation, you'd expect condensation issues around the window area.

 

You might have to pull the floor up in the bathroom to inspect the pipes if you can't figure out where the problems is coming from.

[tzijlstra]

From your description a leak is more likely than condensation, you'd expect condensation issues around the window area.

 

You might have to pull the floor up in the bathroom to inspect the pipes if you can't figure out where the problems is coming from.

 

Yeah that is my biggest worry, that will definitely be an insurance job...

[PeteMorris]

Personally, I'd have to say it's highly unlikely to be condensation...However severe that might be (is the bathroom prone to condensation?....If it was, I think you'd be very aware of it). Water does have a nasty habit of manifesting itself in places other than where it's directly coming from.

 

A seal on the back of the toilet bowl may well be the cause and might not necessarily smell, or it could even be the overflow on the toilet cistern that's slightly leaking. Check the ball-**** is shutting the water off before it gets to the level of the overflow.

 

Just my immediate thoughts before you get ripping up the floor!!!...Eeeeeek!

 

EDIT: I've just noticed my plumbers 'terminology' has been clobbered by the swear filter!!!....That's too funny!....

Edited November 24, 2014 by PeteMorris

[martok]

Personally, I'd have to say it's highly unlikely to be condensation...However severe that might be (is the bathroom prone to condensation?....If it was, I think you'd be very aware of it). Water does have a nasty habit of manifesting itself in places other than where it's directly coming from.

 

A seal on the back of the toilet bowl may well be the cause and might not necessarily smell, or it could even be the overflow on the toilet cistern that's slightly leaking. Check the ball-**** is shutting the water off before it gets to the level of the overflow.

 

Just my immediate thoughts before you get ripping up the floor!!!...Eeeeeek!

 

EDIT: I've just noticed my plumbers 'terminology' has been clobbered by the swear filter!!!....That's too funny!....

 

If you had typed ballcock it wouldn't have been clobbered. But I agree with all that you have written.

[deedah]

Chances are its the connection between the toilet bowl and the fall-pipe ( the bit that goes through the wall or down through the floor ) The sleave that goes OVER the bowl outlet has rubber seals inside. The rubber seals perish eventually. When you flush the toilet the "dirty" water get flushed away and the bowl fills again with "clean" water . As you know , this clean water sits in the bowl and at the other side of the bend , it's sat at a level there also ( that you cannot see as its the other side of the U bend ) . This is roughly where the seals are. If it leaks there will be a damp patch or a drip underneath. Check that ! . You can temporarily put something under it to catch the drips while you get the part replaced ( they cost only a few pounds ).

If it was condensation , you would see droplets on the outside of the tank up to the water level inside the tank. These droplets will collect together and run down and drip , either into the toilet bowl .. or .. more likely onto the floor . Also possible is a leaking joint somewhere on the supply pipe to the toilet ( possibly hidden out of sight ) . This can be some way from the point of staining if the weeping point allows water to run along the pipe to the lowest point then drip drip drip onto the other side of the ceiling . Eventually soaking through.

 

Hope this helps ... Good luck

[tzijlstra]

Thanks for all the advice, I'll crawl round the toilet to find the ballcock haha! (Thank god for Google!)

[martok]

Thanks for all the advice, I'll crawl round the toilet to find the ballcock haha! (Thank god for Google!)

 

Its going to be tight squeeze unless you toilet is in the middle of the room.

 

 

Start by looking at and feeling the floor at the back of the toilet, if it isn't damp its unlikely to be the source of the leak.

[PeteMorris]

Thanks for all the advice, I'll crawl round the toilet to find the ballcock haha! (Thank god for Google!)

 

Oh dear, did you have to google ballcock?.....I presume you're up to speed on it now?.....I'm not well up on really modern ones, but in days gone by, you could adjust the ballcock by simply putting a bend in the rod that is attached to the ball...(this is sounding racier by the minute)....so that as the water rises, the valve switches the water off earlier...

 

Its going to be tight squeeze unless you toilet is in the middle of the room.

 

 

Start by looking at and feeling the floor at the back of the toilet, if it isn't damp its unlikely to be the source of the leak.

 

Or an easier way is to spread some kitchen towel at the back of the bowl and flush the loo and see if there's any sign of water on the towel.

[martok]

Oh dear, did you have to google ballcock?.....I presume you're up to speed on it now?.....I'm not well up on really modern ones, but in days gone by, you could adjust the ballcock by simply putting a bend in the rod that is attached to the ball...(this is sounding racier by the minute)....so that as the water rises, the valve switches the water off earlier...

 

The ballcock will take some finding if it a modern toilet with button to press instead an handle to pull.

 

 

 

Or an easier way is to spread some kitchen towel at the back of the bowl and flush the loo and see if there's any sign of water on the towel.

 

Yes that will work and is something I do every time I do a bit of DIY pluming, leave it there for a few days and hope it stays dry.