UK cancer suvival rates lower than in the 3rd world

[Anna B]

Do you really feel that there is ample evidence to accuse the Tories of negligence and of causing the deaths of thousands of cancer sufferers?

 

Remember that onset of the cancers me nine in the OP often occur at an age that someone in the "3rd world" countries don't tend to reach anyway.

 

 

 

No, but we shouldn't use the deaths of people to score cheap political points. It is the same as the EDL using the death of Lee Riby to score points, but on a much grander scale.

 

I'm not accusing the Tories particularly, both parties have to take responsibility, but there are definately problems in the NHS that need solving, and it's not just about money either.

 

There are fundamental problems. My worry is that the Tories will use it as an excuse to try and privatise it, which I don't want, and Labour will throw money at it which we haven't got, and it will all be wasted.

 

A lot of the problems in A&E for example have root causes in rubbish legislation, targets, problems with GP's and surgeries, etc. It really needs a lot more joined up thinking, a long term plan, and everyone on board. I think that transcends party politics

 

---------- Post added 27-11-2014 at 15:30 ----------

 

Who are the people to hold to account Anna?

 

Both Tories and Labour have messed with the NHS constantly which hasn't helped. Thatcher introduced 'competition' within the NHS which just seems to have clogged up the administration and channels of co-operation. Labour messed up the GP's contracts in 2004 which appears to have caused all sorts of problems.

Don't know who introduced targets but a lot of effort seems to go into manipulating them rather than keeping to them, although if it is impossible to hit them, instead of looking at where the problem is and solving it, the trend seems to be to 'fine' them which makes the problem worse.

 

Training for nurses, be it degree level or otherwise, is often considered by some to be ill thought out, without enough 'hands-on' experience, and doctors argue that all too often their views are not listened to.

 

Pharmacuetical companies ripping off everybody, and overcharging for drugs, failing to develop new drugs if they can't make money out of them, and treating life and death purely as a business transaction. NICE who know the price of everything but the value of nothing. Lobbying groups with vested interests. etc.

 

All wild generalisations, I know, but you get my drift... Basically, the problems run deep and aren't the fault of any one thing but many, and over a long period of time.

 

Then there's also us, the general public, missing appointments, wasting doctor's time, wasting drugs, taking it all for granted, demanding miracles, and sueing when things go wrong. We also need to tackle the problems of old age and bed blocking more effectively, and do more ourselves.

 

It needs a radical rethink and a long term (20yr?) coherant plan that doesn't fall apart with unforseen consequences, and that spans more than just one election term. Money will certainly need to be spent but in the right areas. and savings made in others. That's the hard part.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Anna B

[Carmen.]

As charmer suggested, do take care everyone.

I lost my wonderful husband to cancer seven months ago.

It is so easy to sit at the comp typing away and putting down just what comes into one's head. No face to face. No eye to eye, and squabbling too, over such a sensitive subject.

Reading through the thread, I can tell who may be the posters who have faced the big C.

I can give this assurance. Sheffield is fortunate to have a hospital such as THE HALLAMSHIRE which houses the best cancer care unit around.

Sapiens nihil affirmat quod non probat............. I KNOW what I'm talking about.

[biotechpete]

Now there's several hours of my life I'm not going to waste.

 

Any summary anywhere that doesn't use the word 'some'?

 

From first glance, what is striking from the data is that for all the cancers the UK survival rate is improving, and fairly rapidly improving, but that our 5 year survival rates in adults (between 2005-2009 after many years of LABOUR government) are across the board for all cancer worse than most of Europe.

 

We're better than Slovakia, Latvia and Lithuania, but worse than Australia, NZ (genetically quite similar populations), Spain, Switzerland, Sweden, Portugal, Norway, Netherlands, Italy, Germany, France etc, etc,

 

We're about level with Russia and Romania, Poland, Malta, better in some, worse in some, and our liver cancer survival is about the same as Russia

Edited November 27, 2014 by biotechpete

[JFKvsNixon]

Re the thread title:

 

As you get older the risks of getting cancer increase dramatically. So maybe it makes sense that in a country with a higher life expectancy would have more problems with cancer than a country with a lower life expectancy.

[biotechpete]

Re the thread title:

 

As you get older the risks of getting cancer increase dramatically. So maybe it makes sense that in a country with a higher life expectancy would have more problems with cancer than a country with a lower life expectancy.

 

This isn't about cancer incidence though, the data is looking at 5 year survival after cancer diagnosis, that is to say, how successful are we at treating cancer.

 

The data for most European countries in the study is quite robust too. Mostly they have 100% population data coverage.

 

The actual incidence of cancer overall in the UK is below average for Europe and our death rates are about average. The problem seems to be mostly in our female cancer death rates.

Don't know if this might be paywalled:

http://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/iarcnews/pdf/Ferlay%20J_EJC_2013.pdf

 

I think we must do really well with rarer cancers because the overall picture for the UK is pretty good. I should also mention that we have among the best childhood cancer survival rates in the world.

 

Found the problem...we have the highest unknown and unspecified cancer sites and death from unknown cancers in the whole of Europe, so either we have late/poor diagnosis or we have more honest doctors.

Edited November 27, 2014 by biotechpete
Adding info

[charmer]

This isn't about cancer incidence though, the data is looking at 5 year survival after cancer diagnosis, that is to say, how successful are we at treating cancer.

 

The data for most European countries in the study is quite robust too. Mostly they have 100% population data coverage.

 

The actual incidence of cancer overall in the UK is below average for Europe and our death rates are about average. The problem seems to be mostly in our female cancer death rates.

Don't know if this might be paywalled:

http://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/iarcnews/pdf/Ferlay%20J_EJC_2013.pdf

 

I think we must do really well with rarer cancers because the overall picture for the UK is pretty good. I should also mention that we have among the best childhood cancer survival rates in the world.

 

Found the problem...we have the highest unknown and unspecified cancer sites and death from unknown cancers in the whole of Europe, so either we have late/poor diagnosis or we have more honest doctors.

 

40% of lung cancer diagnosis is in people over 75. Older people have weaker immune systems and thus more likely to succumb to illnesses. Of course an older population will have a detrimental impact on survival rates of any illness.

[biotechpete]

40% of lung cancer diagnosis is in people over 75. Older people have weaker immune systems and thus more likely to succumb to illnesses. Of course an older population will have a detrimental impact on survival rates of any illness.

 

Yes and that's a fair point when considering the comparison to less develoved countries but we still have worse 5 yr survival than countries with higher median age and higher incidence.

[Anna B]

As charmer suggested, do take care everyone.

I lost my wonderful husband to cancer seven months ago.

It is so easy to sit at the comp typing away and putting down just what comes into one's head. No face to face. No eye to eye, and squabbling too, over such a sensitive subject.

Reading through the thread, I can tell who may be the posters who have faced the big C.

I can give this assurance. Sheffield is fortunate to have a hospital such as THE HALLAMSHIRE which houses the best cancer care unit around.

Sapiens nihil affirmat quod non probat............. I KNOW what I'm talking about.

 

I'm so sorry to hear that Carmen. And a timely and heartfelt warning to respect other people's often raw feelings and sensitivities. Let's hope that in time we are able to treat all types of this evil desease and win.

[Cyclone]

Yes and that's a fair point when considering the comparison to less develoved countries but we still have worse 5 yr survival than countries with higher median age and higher incidence.

 

But in the case of these countries, they are equally developed, 1st world countries. Not the 'shock' headline of "3rd world countries".

[biotechpete]

But in the case of these countries, they are equally developed, 1st world countries. Not the 'shock' headline of "3rd world countries".

 

Yes and I chose to make that comparison as it's a fairer one to make, but the data are what the data are. The other first world countries manage not to have worse survival rates than the third world with similar demographics.