So, people really are dying because of the Condems 'austerity'.

[dean9]

taxes dont matter anymore, the government borrows hundreds of billions from the markets over fixed terms. and this is the money that supports the spending of the various government departments. all of this austerity is to cut the deficit between what they spend and what income they can raise.

the actual country's debt has surpassed the one and a half trillion pounds!!.

I dont know the maths but i the country will ever get back into surplus again.

[Mister M]

We pay our taxes specifically to support people like these with our welfare state. But we have a government who is targeting the most vulnerable people in our society and deliberately withholding that support. Meanwhile, with the government's help, the rich just get richer.

 

That is so wrong.

 

I think what is particularly appalling is that the DWP deliberately dropped collecting stats that would be helpful in judging how many vulnerable people have died as a consequence of the benefit reforms: http://liberalconspiracy.org/2013/07/11/dwp-quietly-ditches-stats-on-deaths-of-benefits-recipients/

If a workplace or hospital's procedures resulted in the deaths of people, surely the government through the Health and Safety Executive would have a responsibility to investigate. Out of sight, out of mind?

[JFKvsNixon]

We pay our taxes specifically to support people like these with our welfare state. But we have a government who is targeting the most vulnerable people in our society and deliberately withholding that support. Meanwhile, with the government's help, the rich just get richer.

 

That is so wrong.

 

I believe that one of the government main responsibilities is to look after the most vulnerable in society, and the poor people highlighted in the OP certainly did not get the help that they needed.

 

The problems that they had were far more complicated and ran so much more deeply than the levels of financial support given to them by the government.

 

For me the root of the problem is the deep structural problems where people with mental health problems do not receive the support that they need to get themselves back on their feet so they can get on with living their lives.

 

Of course the government has to carry the lions share of the blame, as I said earlier one of it's primary functions is to look after the most vulnerable, but the rest of society, with it's attitudes to metal health problems and the break down of our community spirit, are not blameless.

 

By this I mean that it seems to me that as a society we now seem to presume that it is only the governments jobs to look after the most needy. Irrespective of of whatever help the government offers, nobody in our country should starve to death.

[martok]

We pay our taxes specifically to support people like these with our welfare state. But we have a government who is targeting the most vulnerable people in our society and deliberately withholding that support. Meanwhile, with the government's help, the rich just get richer.

 

That is so wrong.

 

What percentage of the tax you paid was used to make the rich get richer and what percentage was given to the poor and to provide services for everyone?

[Anna B]

What percentage of the tax you paid was used to make the rich get richer and what percentage was given to the poor and to provide services for everyone?

 

It's not possible to answer that exactly, as you very well know. The fact remains the rich avoid tax with impunity, which is the fault of the government and could be changed with legislation. And various systems which could bring in more revenue from big companies are thwarted by the enormous lobbying groups within Parliament: for example, just at random from today's paper - 'Chancellor George Osborne is facing calls to cut taxes for the oil industry.'

 

A quick look at the Times rich list shows how the wealth of the richest has surged ahead over the last 5 years, and the pay of many company CEOs who deal with government outsourcing contracts, has also vastly increased which is paid for in part by the British taxpayer.

 

I also resent government money (ie. my taxes,) going to subsidise large companies making big profits who are too mean to pay their workers a living wage, and thus have to have their earnings topped up with benefits.

 

Meanwhile the government takes from the poorest and most vulnerable in our society who can't fight back and some of whom are at the point of starvation.

[martok]

It's not possible to answer that exactly, as you very well know. The fact remains the rich avoid tax with impunity, which is the fault of the government and could be changed with legislation. And various systems which could bring in more revenue from big companies are thwarted by the enormous lobbying groups within Parliament: for example, just at random from today's paper - 'Chancellor George Osborne is facing calls to cut taxes for the oil industry.'

 

A quick look at the Times rich list shows how the wealth of the richest has surged ahead over the last 5 years, and the pay of many company CEOs who deal with government outsourcing contracts, has also vastly increased which is paid for in part by the British taxpayer.

 

I also resent government money (ie. my taxes,) going to subsidise large companies making big profits who are too mean to pay their workers a living wage, and thus have to have their earnings topped up with benefits.

 

Meanwhile the government takes from the poorest and most vulnerable in our society who can't fight back and some of whom are at the point of starvation.

 

There isn't really anything in that post that I can agree with, the government isn't taking money from the poor, it is just giving them less. Big business pays sheds loads of tax which is used to pay for the services we all use and need, the tax they pay subsidises the low paid and people that can't or won't work. Avoiding tax isn't just a pastime of the rich, people across the board avoid tax, sometimes legally and sometimes illegally. Shareholders are responsible for CEO wages and not the government.

[Anna B]

There isn't really anything in that post that I can agree with, the government isn't taking money from the poor, it is just giving them less. Big business pays sheds loads of tax which is used to pay for the services we all use and need, the tax they pay subsidises the low paid and people that can't or won't work. Avoiding tax isn't just a pastime of the rich, people across the board avoid tax, sometimes legally and sometimes illegally. Shareholders are responsible for CEO wages and not the government.

 

That's fine. We'll agree to disagree.

[Mister M]

There isn't really anything in that post that I can agree with, the government isn't taking money from the poor, it is just giving them less. Big business pays sheds loads of tax which is used to pay for the services we all use and need, the tax they pay subsidises the low paid and people that can't or won't work. Avoiding tax isn't just a pastime of the rich, people across the board avoid tax, sometimes legally and sometimes illegally. Shareholders are responsible for CEO wages and not the government.

 

Irrespective, the Government has a responsibility to ensure that the most vulnerable in society aren't driven to suicide, starvation or an early grave due to its welfare policies.

 

Both Houses of Parliament are aware of the hardship that people are facing: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/17/atos-attack-emotional-commons-debate

 

"The government's own figures revealed that 1,300 people had died after being told they should start preparing to go back to work, and another 2,200 had died before their assessment was complete."

 

"Atos was paid £110m a year to carry out the assessments for the DWP but and a further £60m of public money was being spent on administering appeals, because so many decisions were contested".

 

If that amount of public money is being spent, on a system which is resulting in the needless deaths of vulnerable people - you have to question the compassion and efficacy of the policy and its implementation. Sickeningly the Chief Executive of ATOS, Thierry Breton, received a bonus of nearly £1 million in spite, or because of the deaths of the most vulnerable people in our country. (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/how-can-the-atos-boss-get-a-bonus-of-1million-while-disabled-people-suffer-8374083.html)

 

I blame Labour as much as the Tories for this - They brought ATOS in to administer the WCA, they need to take their share of the responsibility.

[martok]

Irrespective, the Government has a responsibility to ensure that the most vulnerable in society aren't driven to suicide, starvation or an early grave due to its welfare policies.

 

Both Houses of Parliament are aware of the hardship that people are facing: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/17/atos-attack-emotional-commons-debate

 

"The government's own figures revealed that 1,300 people had died after being told they should start preparing to go back to work, and another 2,200 had died before their assessment was complete."

 

"Atos was paid £110m a year to carry out the assessments for the DWP but and a further £60m of public money was being spent on administering appeals, because so many decisions were contested".

 

If that amount of public money is being spent, on a system which is resulting in the needless deaths of vulnerable people - you have to question the compassion and efficacy of the policy and its implementation. Sickeningly the Chief Executive of ATOS, Thierry Breton, received a bonus of nearly £1 million in spite, or because of the deaths of the most vulnerable people in our country. (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/how-can-the-atos-boss-get-a-bonus-of-1million-while-disabled-people-suffer-8374083.html)

 

I blame Labour as much as the Tories for this - They brought ATOS in to administer the WCA, they need to take their share of the responsibility.

 

Who did the job before ATOS and why didn't they carry on doing the job?

 

 

Despite the furore, the DWP said the programme to reassess benefits for the long-term sick and disabled had been successful. Of the 841,000 people who were on incapacity benefit and had been retested by Atos under the new system, about 230,000 have been found fit for work and shifted to a new, less generous benefit. A further 346,500 were found to be likely to be fit for work at some point in the future, while more than 1m others withdrew their claims before reaching a face-to-face assessment.

 

 

The Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) is the largest employer in the Civil Service, with nearly 105,000 staff, it makes one wonder why they needed to outsource work to a private company.

Edited November 30, 2014 by martok

[Mister M]

Who did the job before ATOS and why didn't they carry on doing the job?

 

You can use the internet, why not try finding out for yourself.