Christmas without Ikkle baby Jesus?

[altus]

The least atheists and other non-Christians could do, besides maybe expressing a little charitable spirit at that time and so not mock Christians for their beliefs at that time, is thank "ikkle baby Jesus" for the lay in

 

That would be those without kids presumably.

[L00b]

That would be those without kids presumably

That's where you Brits have gone wrong all these years: for many Christians whom I know, Santa comes during midnight mass

 

(...but, and of course, it helps to have heathens like me or my Dad around to do the deed at the time )

[flamingjimmy]

So surely the logical approach is then to campaign for the festival to be renamed to more accurately reflect your opinion of what it is, rahter than complain about or malign those who would rather that the festival itself reflect its name

 

What if we don't care what the name is and are totally comfortable calling it Christmas?

 

Its not holy or sacred to us, just a word.

[charmer]

Is that likely to happen? I dont think I would be annoyed no, I wouild correct them and possibly contsct the school asking why. But I would not find it so threatening and intimidating that I would go on a forum specifically to attack those who did honestly believe that

 

I haven't attacked anyone. I said I am glad that Christmas is losing its religious meaning. It does threaten the education of our youngsters.

 

Are you honestly telling me that if your kids teachers were teaching them complete and utter guff, you wouldn't be annoyed?

[Ryedo40]

Christmas is by definition a celebration of the birth of Jesus... It is an undeniable fact that the ordinary meaning, signification, definition <etc.> of "Christmas" is "the birth of the infant Jesus" and, by supranational consensus going back centuries, that it falls on 25 December every year.

 

The consensus is that the birth date of Jesus, including the year, is unknown. It is, however, an undeniable fact that the ordinary meaning, signification, of "Christmas" is, or has been for at least 6 centuries, the personification of the festive traditions(mostly pagan) in the form of Christemas - later personified as Father Christmas. Today, most of us still hold those festive traditions - the ones that Christians had once banned in this country - while rejecting the meaningless religious element

Edited December 4, 2014 by Ryedo40

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Given that he was a Jew, it's a bizarre celebration. Yule perhaps agree with me.

[RootsBooster]

Bit in bold: it doesn't.

Well, yeah, it does. You're saying that having no reference to Jesus means that there's no valid reason to celebrate Christmas, I'm saying there is.

That's a dispute right there.

You then go on to say you don't dispute it.....

And, with respect, that green sentence is somewhat incorrect: Christmas is unconcerned with 'deities' in general terms as you wrote, only with Christian dogma and the infant Jesus (and the rest of the Holy Trinity of course, but no others) in that.

...your deities right there (the bold)

Christmas is by definition a celebration of the birth of Jesus. Whether you believe in it or not, whether you are religious at all or not, is irrelevant. It is an undeniable fact that the ordinary meaning, signification, definition <etc.> of "Christmas" is "the birth of the infant Jesus" and, by supranational consensus going back centuries, that it falls on 25 December every year. That is the cultural and factual yardstick, it's not open to conjecture at all. The theological nature and significance (and actual date) of the event is open to conjecture, absolutely.

Christmas, according to the link you provided, is much more than that.

 

So, anyone who is celebrating on 25th December without any reference to the birth of Jesus (let it be belaboured: however much in passing that reference be, and without necessarily believing in any of it at all), is not celebrating Christmas, but a "family gathering" or some other unspecified or otherwise-badged "occasion" that happens to fall on 25th December.

No, it's definitely Christmas we celebrate in our house, Father Christmas, Christmas tree, all the trimmings, crackers, Christmas dinner and gift giving, all stuff that's listed in your link.

The least atheists and other non-Christians could do, besides maybe expressing a little charitable spirit at that time and so not mock Christians for their beliefs at that time, is thank "ikkle baby Jesus" for the lay in

I don't really see how adding the baby-speak version of "little" to "baby Jesus" is mocking. That's by the by though, not my comment to dispute.

 

---------- Post added 04-12-2014 at 21:07 ----------

 

So surely the logical approach is then to campaign for the festival to be renamed to more accurately reflect your opinion of what it is, rahter than complain about or malign those who would rather that the festival itself reflect its name

 

Who's complaining about it? The name's just fine as it is as far as I'm concerned.

 

I'm an atheist but I do say "Goddammit!" and "Jeeesus!" in exclamation sometimes.

[buck]

I am not religious but I was brought up by religious parents. They have never forced their beliefs on me however I do believe that their faith contributed to my wonderful upbringing and I am incredibly grateful to them for that.

 

Personally, I find all this religion bashing pretty offensive. Non religious people moan about religion forcing it's opinion on others- how are atheists any better?

 

Christmas is a religious festival. If you ar enot religious- don't celebrate Christmas- start something different. But don't try and taint a day that is extremely special to lots of people across the world. Whether you are religious or not, surely you can't complain about a story of hope and good will to all? I don't believe in the navity story but I always associate Christmas with family, loved ones, trying to put a smile on the face of those less fortunate and feeling grateful for all the good things in life.

 

Black Friday, Cyber Monday etc... that's not Christmas. That's greed and everything Christmas does not stand for. If Christmas offends you- there's two suggests of modern day capitalism that you can indulge in.

Very well said. It is possible to disagree without having to insult. Some atheists need to learn that.

 

---------- Post added 11-12-2014 at 14:30 ----------

 

No it isn't. Your sentence was pretty dreadful though - what the heck is that full stop there for?

His finger slipped. Mine do that too,often I'm sorry to say.

[Ellco]

I don't believe in God but a lot of people do... so that's okay. I wonder how other religions would react if their idols were ridiculed.

[buck]

It's nice all you college kids having a good old ding dong at each other over Xmas. Might as well call it that. Best I remember from when I was a kid in Sheffiield back in the forties was a glass of illegal Aussie sherry or two (or three) and the smell of a good cigar.