Christmas without Ikkle baby Jesus?

[janie48]

You just reminded me of an article I read the other day, it's from a comedy website, granted, but it's sourced well enough anyway, at least as reliable as a tv show you vaguely remember from a year ago.

 

"Picture a Nativity scene. You can build one out of action figures, for reference. We suggest He-Man and She-Ra for Joseph and Mary, Pokemon for the animals, and maybe a little Krang or something for Jesus. There are not a lot of baby-sized action figures to choose from. Got your scene? Good, now let's dissect it: First up, those three kings, the wise men (Power Rangers, obviously).Except the gospels don't mention Kings visiting young Jesus, only a group of magi from the east. Magi weren't royalty, but rather priests or wise men versed in astrology and magic, because it's not a birthday party without a magician, Mom.

 

Now, hopefully these were at least royal court magi, because your run-of-the-mill magi were a pretty sketchy bunch -- they're described throughout the Bible as frauds, snake oil salesmen, and swindlers. It's assumed that these weren't lowly street magi based on the luxury gifts they came packing, though one Old Testament verse suggests that they were just as likely to be traveling salesmen as they were wandering nobility -- an interpretation shunned by church authorities, but that was understandably popular with Renaissance businessmen.

 

Yeah, we know "and then a bunch of knife-salesmen showed up" doesn't exactly set a holy scene. It gets worse: The magi's choice of gifts would have raised some eyebrows, too, given how frequently the Bible mentions both frankincense and myrrh as aphrodisiacs. Now, we're not saying a bunch of shady, door-to-door sex toy salesmen showed up for the birth of Christ, but ...

 

It wasn't until the Middle Ages that the magi began to be described as kings, largely to make the New Testament story better match the Old Testament messiah prophecies, and probably because "kings" sounded better than "magical spice perverts."

 

source

I didn't say they were Kings, I typed "Kings" - quote.

That programme referred to them as astrologers but described them also as the first astronomers.

 

I'm not interested in what was said about them in the middle ages, I expect there were many different types of them, like in any group or community, no need for sweeping generalisations.

 

Some of those parts of the East where they originated from were places where the earliest Christian communities settled.

Edited December 19, 2014 by janie48

[Delayed]

You just reminded me of an article I read the other day, it's from a comedy website, granted, but it's sourced well enough anyway, at least as reliable as a tv show you vaguely remember from a year ago.

 

"Picture a Nativity scene. You can build one out of action figures, for reference. We suggest He-Man and She-Ra for Joseph and Mary, Pokemon for the animals, and maybe a little Krang or something for Jesus. There are not a lot of baby-sized action figures to choose from. Got your scene? Good, now let's dissect it: First up, those three kings, the wise men (Power Rangers, obviously). Except the gospels don't mention kings visiting young Jesus, only a group of magi from the east. Magi weren't royalty, but rather priests or wise men versed in astrology and magic, because it's not a birthday party without a magician, Mom.

 

Now, hopefully these were at least royal court magi, because your run-of-the-mill magi were a pretty sketchy bunch -- they're described throughout the Bible as frauds, snake oil salesmen, and swindlers. It's assumed that these weren't lowly street magi based on the luxury gifts they came packing, though one Old Testament verse suggests that they were just as likely to be traveling salesmen as they were wandering nobility -- an interpretation shunned by church authorities, but that was understandably popular with Renaissance businessmen.

 

Yeah, we know "and then a bunch of knife-salesmen showed up" doesn't exactly set a holy scene. It gets worse: The magi's choice of gifts would have raised some eyebrows, too, given how frequently the Bible mentions both frankincense and myrrh as aphrodisiacs. Now, we're not saying a bunch of shady, door-to-door sex toy salesmen showed up for the birth of Christ, but ...

 

It wasn't until the Middle Ages that the magi began to be described as kings, largely to make the New Testament story better match the Old Testament messiah prophecies, and probably because "kings" sounded better than "magical spice perverts."

 

source

 

 

The number 1 point on that link is quite interesting.

 

Some posters may need to read that for themselves..

[discodown]

Though having said that I do wonder now if cutting down trees to decorate is eco friendly and a good thing for the environment?

You can always rent a live tree and return it to the farm after christmas then rent it again next christmas there are a few places that do it

 

http://www.thelittletreecompany.com/christmas-tree-hire/christmas-tree-hire-faq/

[janie48]

You can always rent a live tree and return it to the farm after christmas then rent it again next christmas there are a few places that do it

 

http://www.thelittletreecompany.com/christmas-tree-hire/christmas-tree-hire-faq/

Hadn't heard about that, thanks for the info and link.

[Solomon1]

I wouldn't mind so much if those who don't believe or care about the nativity would treat the 24th - 26th December as normal days and work them for standard pay, and don't go in for presents and such.

 

i don't believe or care in the nativity

 

but have always loved christmas!

 

it's about family and presents and eating and drinking and TV, and pretty lights...

 

what's not to like?

[EndlessAccel]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11264641/Christmas-no-room-at-the-inn-for-baby-Jesus-in-school-nativities.html

Is anyone really bothered? Im not but then i know that the story of Jesus is a fake and everything about it is made up and stolen from earlier myths and legends.

Are you bothered? Does it even matter? Only around 10% of us go to church regular anyway so isnt it about time he was replaced by something a little more current?

 

---------- Post added 02-12-2014 at 11:19 ----------

 

Thank you kind person who fixed my spelling in the title

 

Agree! It is all in my opinion nonsense.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

My stance in this thread is also quite a traditionalist one, Jesus has never played any part in my Christmas celebrations, nor for the generation before me. It's been tradition my entire life that Jesus has never been involved in any of my Christmas celebrations.

Well, he obviously didn't celebrate Xmas- which did not yet exist; and he was a Jew anyway.

[RootsBooster]

Well, he obviously didn't celebrate Xmas- which did not yet exist; and he was a Jew anyway.

 

...assuming that he (Jesus Christ) ever existed at all.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

...assuming that he (Jesus Christ) ever existed at all.

Not 'Christ', at least. His name was merely Jesus (or, more accurately, Yehoshua). He did exist. There are non-Christian testimonies, such as the historian Josephus. And he is also mentioned in uncensored editions of the Mishna.