Christmas without Ikkle baby Jesus?

[Nicotrod]

I thought it was a valid point that linked to the debate. Sorry if it slipped you up.

[flamingjimmy]

I thought it was a valid point that linked to the debate. Sorry if it slipped you up.

 

No apology needed, it didn't.

 

Where in this sentence

 

"We don't try to force schools to teach atheism as fact, we don't fly planes into buildings or blow up abortion clinics or mutilate the genital organs of babies etc."

 

is the implication that 'religion is to blame for all war/ terrorist attacks'?

 

Note the key word 'all'.

 

Hell, I didn't even mention wars at all, I made reference to the twin tower attacks (religion was deeply involved) and the bombing of abortion clinics (religion also heavily involved).

[L00b]

You are flat our wrong here.

in your opinion.

There's a big difference between respecting someones right to hold beliefs and respecting the beliefs themselves.

There's an equally big difference between respecting beliefs and believing in them yourself. Don't mistake one for the other.

Feel free to believe whatever you like.

I do. I believe people who would still keep and enjoy the date and trappings of the annual Christmas event, but expunge the Christian aspects and components from it, are hypocrites.

 

I do not believe in theological concepts, that said (just to be clear).

Also, I absolutely do have the right to mock and belittle said beliefs, and to denigrate the religious character of Christmas, for the sake of whatever I want, not because of my atheism, but because of my freedom as a human being.

...that old chestnut.

 

You have a lot of understanding to do yet about "respect". It's a mutual concept, you know, and intrinsically connected to another one, equally important: "tolerance"

Edited December 3, 2014 by L00b

[Chelle-82]

I think this is the sort of topic where everyone needs to agree to disagree!

 

As soon as religion / religious events are mentioned it sends people into a frenzy! everyone trying to ram their own opinions / beliefs down others necks!

 

In reality, for the foreseeable future Christmas is too big to be 'cancelled'.

 

It's up to individuals to do what they chose during the festive season.

If you want to go to church and enjoy the carol's and masses, say a little prayer and stick to the 'tradition' then go and do that.

If you want to take advantage of the bank holidays after a hard year of graft at work to just be with family, eat goose and watch really bad TV then do that.

If you don't want to celebrate anything at all because it isn't something you believe in or care about then that's fine too.

 

Each to their own, respect each others wishes and stay peaceful.

[vwkittie]

I'm an atheist but I think we should have traditional nativities. No matter what your own personal beliefs are, Christmas is derived from that story so I think it's a good thing to teach kids about it, where it came from, and what it stands for. They can make up their own minds about it afterwards as part of a balanced approach to religious education. If I had kids I'd want them to be taught the full story behind everything, not glossed over with irrelevant rubbish (which is what having an Alan Sugar themed play would be imo).

 

Plus it's just a nice tradition, does no harm so why not?

[flamingjimmy]

in your opinion.

Quite, human rights are a subjective construct. Thankfully though, my opinion on this matter at least is shared by our lawmakers.

 

I do have the right both morally in my opinion and in this country, legally as well to mock and belittle any beliefs.

 

There's an equally big difference between respecting beliefs and believing in them yourself. Don't mistake one for the other.

In my view respect is owed to people, not to ideas or beliefs.

 

I do. I believe people who would still keep and enjoy the date and trappings of the annual Christmas event, but expunge the Christian aspects and components from it, are hypocrites.

I disagree, I do not think that word means what you think it means.

 

hypocrisy:

noun, plural hypocrisies.

1.

a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.

2.

a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

 

By celebrating Christmas as an entirely non-religious event and not pretending to be Christian, how exactly am I being a hypocrite? Feel free to use a different source for your definition, the first page of google at least doesn't have any that differ significantly from that one.

 

You have a lot of understanding to do yet about "respect". It's a mutual concept, you know, and intrinsically connected to another one, equally important: "tolerance"

I tolerate and respect religious people just fine thank you very much, I interact with many and name some as my friends and one in fact as my mum. You don't know me. Edited December 3, 2014 by flamingjimmy

[Harrystottle]

People can have whatever views they like, more or less, but it is noticeable that sneering at religion (well, Christianity anyway) is considered acceptable nowadays. Most of the people doing it seem to think lack of religious belief automatically equates to greater intelligence.

[SnailyBoy]

People can have whatever views they like, more or less, but it is noticeable that sneering at religion (well, Christianity anyway) is considered acceptable nowadays. Most of the people doing it seem to think lack of religious belief automatically equates to greater intelligence.

 

Maybe more people apply critical thinking to what they believe to be true?

[L00b]

Quite, human rights are a subjective construct. Thankfully though, my opinion on this matter at least is shared by our lawmakers.

Would you like to link me to the piece of Statute which makes the UK a secular country, then?

I do have the right both morally in my opinion and in this country, legally as well to mock and belittle any beliefs.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should: that is what respect and tolerance brings about.

By celebrating Christmas as an entirely non-religious event and not pretending to be Christian, how exactly am I being a hypocrite?

Are you familiar with the concept of an oxymoron?

Feel free to use a different source for your definition, the first page of google at least doesn't have any that differ significantly from that one.

4th down on 1st page OK with you?

hy·poc·ri·sy noun \hi-ˈpä-krə-sē also hī-\

: the behavior of people who do things that they tell other people not to do : behavior that does not agree with what someone claims to believe or feel

 

plural hy·poc·ri·sies

 

1: a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion.

 

I tolerate and respect religious people just fine thank you very much, I interact with many and name some as my friends and one in fact as my mum. You don't know me.

I don't pretend to know you any better than through your posts. They do not accord with the above sentence Edited December 3, 2014 by L00b

[Ryedo40]

People can have whatever views they like, more or less, but it is noticeable that sneering at religion (well, Christianity anyway) is considered acceptable nowadays.

 

Why is it acceptable to sneer at or criticise any silly idea or belief when it is not related to religion?

 

And why are people expected to give silly ideas, and sometimes dangerous beliefs in religion, a free pass?

 

Religions, Christianity, Islam, or whatever, make some outlandish and extraordinary claims. If they can't provide anything of substance to backup those claims, they should be sneered at or criticised like anyone else's.

 

Most of the people doing it seem to think lack of religious belief automatically equates to greater intelligence.

 

I don't think that. I do think most people who believe haven't been taught to, or don't think critically about religion. A lot of people around the world also haven't been exposed to different or scientific explanations about the world - so heavily rely on superstition and religion to try and make sense of things. I also think you could be the most intelligent person on the planet and still believe - although that would be for emotional reasons(fear of death, suffering, etc.)