How Sheffield is portrayed. Why did they kill the city centre?

[Stoatwobbler]

I read in the newspapers and saw on TV that it is cold on the moon. I've not been to check. I'm prepared to take their word for it.

 

To be honest I'd probably rather trust them than you. But who do you think the rest of the world will believe? I live at the wrong end of town to worry about it, and as I'm not looking to open a business in Sheffield or Rotherham it doesn't really worry me either way. I was just pointing out to another contributor to this thread that Rotherham seems to have escaped the decline that they claim Meadowhall inflicted on Sheffield.

 

I think my conclusion is there are a lot of folk in Sheffield who like to make excuses and bury their heads to the truth about Sheffield city centre decline.

 

I don't suppose you want me pointing out that Chesterfield too is experiencing somewhat of a boom. They have rock bands at the Proact Stadium the town Centre shop vacancy rate is just 7.7 per cent - way below the national average of 12.2 per cent and chasing top-performing Cambridge, at 7 per cent, and employment in the borough is just 3.1 per cent.

 

Do you know off the top what Sheffield'd shop vacancy rate is, or what unemployment is in the city?

 

If you'd rather trust the national press rather then the people who actually have to endure Rotherham town centre on a regular basis then you might just be a complete fool.

[roosterboost]

If you'd rather trust the national press rather then the people who actually have to endure Rotherham town centre on a regular basis then you might just be a complete fool.

 

That's the point. I'm not. That's why I don't take any notices of stooges like you who trot out the line.

 

A complete fool is someone who goes to visit a place without reading about it first. They are the one's who end up with the wife and kids in Beirut. The sensible ones read what the journalists say about various places and end up in Sorrento.

Did you find out the empty shop rate in Sheffield and local unemployment? Of course not. That would mean reading figures you don't want to read.

Edited December 15, 2014 by roosterboost

[Stoatwobbler]

That's the point. I'm not. That's why I don't take any notices of stooges like you who trot out the line.

 

Did you find out the empty shop rate in Sheffield and local unemployment? Of course not. That would mean reading figures you don't want to read.

.

 

Who am I meant to be a "stooge" of?

 

Sheffield Council?

Nick Clegg?

The Illuminati and the lizard men?

 

Get off your backside and visit Rotherham town centre. You might find the experience very different to your spin.

[L00b]

I read in the newspapers and saw on TV that it is cold on the moon. I've not been to check. I'm prepared to take their word for it.

From the linked article in the OP, 22 November 2014:

A major force hollowing out places like Sheffield is the existence of out-of-town shopping centres and business parks built in the 1980s and 1990s: cities with weaker centres have not been able to withstand them. (Meadowhall seems to have done not only for Sheffield’s centre, but nearby Rotherham’s as well.)

I was just pointing out to another contributor to this thread that Rotherham seems to have escaped the decline that they claim Meadowhall inflicted on Sheffield.

It hasn't. But you will be vindicated as and when anchor stores start to site there again. The last one to go, M&S, shut shop ten years ago. Newcomers are unsurprisingly looking at Parkgate unit availability for a Rotherham siting, not the town centre.

 

Different source, about Parkgate still:

Javelin Group’s report ranked York Designer Outlet as the third Top Factory Outlet Centre, while Meadowhall came in fifth place in the Top 20 Shopping Centres and Parkgate/Retail World in Rotherham also took fifth place in the Top Retail Parks category.

(link)

I don't suppose you want me pointing out that Chesterfield too is experiencing somewhat of a boom. They have rock bands at the Proact Stadium the town Centre shop vacancy rate is just 7.7 per cent - way below the national average of 12.2 per cent and chasing top-performing Cambridge, at 7 per cent, and employment in the borough is just 3.1 per cent.

Chesterfield is on the fringe of Meadowhall's catchment area, at which Meadowhall's retail "magnet effect" gets substantially dampened.

 

In symmetrical terms, like Barnsley (now long renowned as a very valid shopping experience, significantly more so than Sheffield and Rotherham...just like Chesterfield).

[the_bloke]

I blame Thatcher

 

There it is! It's the Sheffield Forum version of Godwin's Law

[Flanker7]

Godwins Law " For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.[8] This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law. It is considered poor form to raise such a comparison arbitrarily with the motive of ending the thread."

 

Okay '_bloke' - you snipped a bit out of my comment to illustrate your point. Did you learn your skills on Fleet Street.

 

Effective if the evidence of the full comment wasn't here for all to see - oops.

The very next line was ". . .and here's the evidence."

 

So its not arbitrary and the intention was not to end the thread.

Evidence again - the final line of my comment was a question.

Its all there in comment 46.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Flanker7
evidence....

[the_bloke]

Godwins Law " For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.[8] This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law. It is considered poor form to raise such a comparison arbitrarily with the motive of ending the thread."

 

Okay '_bloke' - you snipped a bit out of my comment to illustrate your point. Did you learn your skills on Fleet Street.

 

Effective if the evidence of the full comment wasn't here for all to see - oops.

The very next line was ". . .and here's the evidence."

 

So its not arbitrary and the intention was not to end the thread.

Evidence again - the final line of my comment was a question.

Its all there in comment 46.

 

The answer to your original question can be summed up in one word; capitalism

 

Shops wanted to make more money and the high street was not a suitable location to do so. The first sort of shops that started building big warehouse style stores outside of the high street were grocery shops, builders merchants, furniture stores and electrical retailers, in order to make more money you need more space. Why have a shop on the high street where you have very limited stock when you can have a big shop and have five times the stock?

 

'Foreign' shops also had a business model that wasn't suitable for the traditional high street either; stores such as Toys R Us didn't exist in the UK until retail parks started appearing, so it's not unreasonable to suggest that the rules on building out of town retail parks were relaxed in order to attract that sort of investment.

 

You don't need to pore over economic articles to glean that sort of information, it was obvious to anyone around at the time.

 

The fact that out of town retail destroyed the high street - and places like Sheffield still haven't responded after 30 years - just shows that it was exactly what the consumer wanted at the time.

[Cyclone]

The majority isnt privately owned its council. In and out the centre. Says on the pay metre. Unless ive gone completely blind

 

What about the moor and surrounding area. Even division street has boarded up shops. Well was a few weeks ago.

 

---------- Post added 15-12-2014 at 11:18 ----------

 

 

Stop taking so much money from council budgets so the council have to indirectly tax motorists and shops with high business rates to balance accounts.

 

---------- Post added 15-12-2014 at 11:27 ----------

 

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/roads/travel/driving/parking.html

 

Free parking on sat after 2pm is good move.

 

Not blind. But not very good at counting.

The on street parking is a minority of the available parking.

 

And how do you suggest that we as a country pay for the extra money that you say local government needs?

[Flanker7]

The answer to your original question can be summed up in one word; capitalism...........

.................The fact that out of town retail destroyed the high street - and places like Sheffield still haven't responded after 30 years - just shows that it was exactly what the consumer wanted at the time.

 

Thank-you for your well reasoned answer and agreement with my point.

 

But, your last comment is a little loose. I'm sure you did not mean that the consumer wanted to destroy the High Street and the fact that 'places like Sheffield' have not responded proves nothing.

 

In after WW2 Green Belt legislation was brought in to stop urban sprawl.

In 1982 the legislation was relaxed.

 

It is in these ways enterprises are controlled and we are protected from the worst excesses of unrestrained capitalism. Just because people want a thing and/or it makes money is not justification for allowing it to expand without control.

 

In 1982. If the Thatcher Government had known that the town centres of the country would be destroyed would they have allowed this to happen?

I don't think so.

[truman]

Thank-you for your well reasoned answer and agreement with my point.

 

But, your last comment is a little loose. I'm sure you did not mean that the consumer wanted to destroy the High Street and the fact that 'places like Sheffield' have not responded proves nothing.

 

In after WW2 Green Belt legislation was brought in to stop urban sprawl.

In 1982 the legislation was relaxed.

 

It is in these ways enterprises are controlled and we are protected from the worst excesses of unrestrained capitalism. Just because people want a thing and/or it makes money is not justification for allowing it to expand without control.

 

In 1982. If the Thatcher Government had known that the town centres of the country would be destroyed would they have allowed this to happen?

I don't think so.

 

Have any of the new shopping centres been built on greenbelt? Meadowhall certainly wasn't...