The Truth about A & E Waiting Times

[aliceBB]

So A & E depts. up and down the land are getting it in the neck because too many patients (although actually, fewer than 1 in 10) breach 'the 4 hour rule'. The govt. is giving the impression that frontline staff in A & E depts are disorganised or lazy or both. Otherwise, why can't they get through all the patients faster?

 

This is pernicious twaddle. The reasons so many patients have to wait longer in A & E than is deemed 'reasonable' are:

 

1. Too many people turning up in A & E who should not be there (i.e. they do not need urgent treatment). They have period pains, or a headache, or they have stubbed their toe, or they have a cough. Perhaps they have cut their finger and have no plasters at home. Perhaps they have vomited once or twice that day, but feel OK otherwise. Perhaps they have lost their contraceptive pills. They might have an itchy eye, or a sore throat. None of these is an accident or emergency requiring a trip to A & E, but they come anyway.

 

2. When someone is brought into A & E drunk (as is often the case), they cannot be turned away, but nor can they be assessed clinically because in that condition, an accurate diagnosis is well nigh impossible. You have to wait until they sober up, then assess them. That often means that they 'breach'. That is clearly not the fault of the doctors and other healthcare staff, but it makes the statistics look worse than they are.

 

3. If the police arrest someone who is drunk and disorderly, with the intention of taking them to a cell, all the drunk person has to do is say that they will harm/kill themself if they are locked up, and the police are obliged to take them to A & E for a psychiatric assessment (when they have sobered up, so longer waiting time).

 

I wonder how many A & E doctors were consulted before the govt came out with their stupid declarations about breaches, and I wonder how they expect to recruit more A & E staff when the ones we have are being told they are failing?

Edited December 12, 2014 by aliceBB

[Chazndave]

I agree with everything apart the 'headache'. Headaches if unusual and har different symptoms and are sudden and you arent a migraine suffer can and rightfully warrant a trip to a&e.

[monkey104]

Pretty much spot on there, Alice.

[GLASGOWOODS]

So A & E depts. up and down the land are getting it in the neck because too many patients (although actually, fewer than 1 in 10) breach 'the 4 hour rule'. The govt. is giving the impression that frontline staff in A & E depts are disorganised or lazy or both. Otherwise, why can't they get through all the patients faster?

 

This is pernicious twaddle. The reasons so many patients have to wait longer in A & E than is deemed 'reasonable' are:

 

1. Too many people turning up in A & E who should not be there (i.e. they do not need urgent treatment). They have period pains, or a headache, or they have stubbed their toe, or they have a cough. Perhaps they have cut their finger and have no plasters at home. Perhaps they have vomited once or twice that day, but feel OK otherwise. Perhaps they have lost their contraceptive pills. They might have an itchy eye, or a sore throat. None of these is an accident or emergency requiring a trip to A & E, but they come anyway.

 

2. When someone is brought into A & E drunk (as is often the case), they cannot be turned away, but nor can they be assessed clinically because in that condition, an accurate diagnosis is well nigh impossible. You have to wait until they sober up, then assess them. That often means that they 'breach'. That is clearly not the fault of the doctors and other healthcare staff, but it makes the statistics look worse than they are.

 

3. If the police arrest someone who is drunk and disorderly, with the intention of taking them to a cell, all the drunk person has to do is say that they will harm/kill themself if they are locked up, and the police are obliged to take them to A & E for a psychiatric assessment (when they have sobered up, so longer waiting time).

 

I wonder how many A & E doctors were consulted before the govt came out with their stupid declarations about breaches, and I wonder how they expect to recruit more A & E staff when the ones we have are being told they are failing?

 

 

I totally agree with you.

 

I would also add the amount of NHS staff milking the system.

[aliceBB]

 

I would also add the amount of NHS staff milking the system.

 

Which is what, exactly? And how?

[Mr Gobby]

Charge them 20/30 quid .They'll soon get the idea.

[GLASGOWOODS]

Which is what, exactly? And how?

 

Heard it quite often from friends i know who work in the NHS.

 

Also this extract from a personal letter in the paper today.

 

Why the NHS is failing.

 

Next month I will retire after 35 years in the NHS, 30 of them coordinating teams of outworkers. And over the years two of the biggest problems have been maternity leave and sickness.

 

Because of their skills,99% of my teams are women and because of maternity leave and sickness (either personal or family), I consider myself lucky if I have a staff level of 75%. Many abide by the rules, but there's an increasing number who milk the system for all it's worth.

 

I stopped being surprised years ago by just how many regularly call in sick a couple of weeks before the school holidays. It's also not unknown for new recruits to inform me, sometimes before they've completed their induction period, that they're pregnant. It's later revealed that they knew at the interview but said nothing.

 

Another ploy, used to extend maternity leave, is to return to work after the expiration of the allotted time then announce after a few weeks that they're taking up the holiday days they accrued while on leave or, once they're back in their new period of entitlement, go off suffering stress.

 

In the worst cases, I've known of further children being conceived while the woman was on holiday or off 'sick' so the maternity leave continues ad infinitum. Unless the NHS comes down hard on those who abuse maternity and sickness leave, it will never resolve it's staffing problems.

 

 

 

My partners sister is a teacher and her husband is a principle English teacher, they say exactly the same goes on in schools.

[aliceBB]

Heard it quite often from friends i know who work in the NHS.

 

Also this extract from a personal letter in the paper today.

 

Why the NHS is failing.

 

Next month I will retire after 35 years in the NHS, 30 of them coordinating teams of outworkers. And over the years two of the biggest problems have been maternity leave and sickness.

 

Because of their skills,99% of my teams are women and because of maternity leave and sickness (either personal or family), I consider myself lucky if I have a staff level of 75%. Many abide by the rules, but there's an increasing number who milk the system for all it's worth.

 

I stopped being surprised years ago by just how many regularly call in sick a couple of weeks before the school holidays. It's also not unknown for new recruits to inform me, sometimes before they've completed their induction period, that they're pregnant. It's later revealed that they knew at the interview but said nothing.

 

Another ploy, used to extend maternity leave, is to return to work after the expiration of the allotted time then announce after a few weeks that they're taking up the holiday days they accrued while on leave or, once they're back in their new period of entitlement, go off suffering stress.

 

In the worst cases, I've known of further children being conceived while the woman was on holiday or off 'sick' so the maternity leave continues ad infinitum. Unless the NHS comes down hard on those who abuse maternity and sickness leave, it will never resolve it's staffing problems.

 

 

 

My partners sister is a teacher and her husband is a principle English teacher, they say exactly the same goes on in schools.

 

I taught for 30+ years and saw no evidence of what you describe.

 

Besides which, maternity leave is a right for female workers in most jobs. The fact that there are not enough supply staff to cover is not the fault of the employee who is pregnant. Nor is it is what is making A & E departments breach.

[tzijlstra]

Charge them 20/30 quid .They'll soon get the idea.

 

I totally agree with this. The issue with A&E is that it is free, people have no natural inhibition because a lot of people have no loyalty to the NHS.

[GLASGOWOODS]

I taught for 30+ years and saw no evidence of what you describe.

 

Besides which, maternity leave is a right for female workers in most jobs. The fact that there are not enough supply staff to cover is not the fault of the employee who is pregnant. Nor is it is what is making A & E departments breach.

 

My ex is a teacher and one of her colleagues cancelled a major operation because it fell in the 6 week holidays. She managed to re-arrange it just after the 6 weeks holidays. Post op she needed another 6 weeks off to recover (fair enough) This woman put her holidays before her health! What an idiot!

 

I agree with your comment regarding the NHS, but abuse is rife if the incentives are there.

 

I know of people who work in local government who literally decide amongst themselves which part of the year they will go off on a sickie.

 

---------- Post added 12-12-2014 at 22:54 ----------

 

I totally agree with this. The issue with A&E is that it is free, people have no natural inhibition because a lot of people have no loyalty to the NHS.

 

I will also agree with this.