Australian coffee shop seige by islamist.

[Ellco]

Don't worry, I am aware you don't know what the Endlösung was, it would behoof you to Google it though.

 

Let me put it this way: You are not the first to blame an entire segment of the population for the actions of a few. In the mean-time, I'd like to also challenge you to do the sums I offered in my post.

 

If you can't be bothered, here is a summary: As a percentage of the population, muslim 'terrorists' cause far less loss of life in "the West" than do people like the soldier in Pennsylvania today.

 

The world has some sad people that feel murder is an answer, get over it, giving up your civil liberties to ensure they don't ever murder again is not going to work, seeking a respectful dialogue to resolve the underlying issues is.

 

I can't be bothered. You are a dangerous fool.

[Obelix]

Interesting example you chose there, would you also say that nationalism, racism, etc. were irrelevant to Anders Breivik's murder spree?

 

 

 

Do you think Anders Breivik was just a 'lone madman' who would have gone on a killing spree anyway or do you think the ideology he followed was relevant?

 

Brevik described himself as a Christian, do you think his ideology is anything at all resembling mainstream Christianity?

 

Islamic fundamentalism is to mainstream Islam as Brevik is to mainstream Christianity. In other words, not a lot.

 

---------- Post added 16-12-2014 at 02:02 ----------

 

I can't be bothered. You are a dangerous fool.

 

Ah, well all goes wrong and you have no argument, resort to abuse. That'll see you right my lad!

[flamingjimmy]

Brevik described himself as a Christian, do you think his ideology is anything at all resembling mainstream Christianity?

Not very much, however I think it does bear resemblance to a fair chunk of current right wing thought.

 

And anyway people aren't just saying that this was to do with Islamism because he was a Muslim, it was more to do with the whole raising a flag with the Shahada on it thing that he did whilst he was there, rather gave the game away.

 

In any case, I know the question wasn't aimed at you but you chose to respond to it, that's cool but in doing so you haven't actually answered it. Do you think Anders Breivik was just a 'lone madman' who would have gone on a killing spree anyway or do you think the ideology he followed was relevant to his actions?

 

---------- Post added 16-12-2014 at 02:32 ----------

 

What is the Endlösung Ellco, feel free to explain.

 

Just to elaborate: numbers don't lie. Feel free to add up the total number of people killed due to muslim terrorism (be as liberal with your interpretation of that as you like) and than add up the total number of people killed by deranged lunatics (be as scroungy with your interpretation of that as you like).

 

It will wake you up.

 

To be honest I don't really fancy the googling required to find that out it'll probably get me put on some government watchlist but seeing as you imply you know the numbers can you just give them to us?

[Zamo]

You make it sound like non muslim terrorists/extremists don't exist....

 

I couldn't have been clearer in my previous post where I began by acknowledging that Islam does not have exclusivity when it comes to the creation of extremism through nurture. Bit it is irrelevant.

 

Islam and Islamic culture has a real problem in that for every 1,000 people raised in the faith/culture the percentage who develop extreme views is massively higher than in any other religion/culture. Whilst I'm no fan of any religions (all nonsense) I can live and let live when it is harmless nonsense but it is another matter when it is dangerous nonsense.

 

 

As for Zamo: You only hear about the muslims that do this (or you only pick up on the muslims doing this so you can claim religious terrorism) what about the countless murderers who don't use that label?

 

Explain that man in Pennsylvania to me, the ongoing trouble in Ireland, the Cumbrian shooter, the guy who raped and murdered his landlady in Scarborough...

 

We all have perceptions, it is time to accept that this is indeed why we see more of one thing and less of the others. The media are VERY guilty in this (Just tonight the BBC on the leaked Labour document showed their beloved 'vox populi' pieces with people saying: "I will vote UKIP cause they are the only ones that are right!" and the gem: "If you let one in, you let twenty in."

 

I didn't see the voice of the people who don't believe that represented, did you?

 

Time to wake up folks, you are being played en-masse in a very dirty game - one where votes can be won by stigmatising minorities.

 

It is a given that all religions and cultures have bad and mad people. The difference with Islam and Islamic culture is the disproportionate number of people it nurtures who end up with extremist views. Thousands of British Muslims are going off to fight jihad or join some terrorist group. Some will just be mad or bad but most are 'normal' people that are the product of the nurturing and upbringing they received. The only people who can do anything about that is the Muslim community. Acknowledging a problem is the first step towards a solution... you are doing Muslims no favour by encouraging them to stay in denial.

[tzijlstra]

To be honest I don't really fancy the googling required to find that out it'll probably get me put on some government watchlist but seeing as you imply you know the numbers can you just give them to us?

 

UK terrorist killings since 2010:

 

Lee Rigby killed by two deranged mad men acting as lone wolves.

 

Mohammed Saleem stabbed to death by Pavlo Lapshyn, a Ukrainian student in the UK who after this went on to plant nail-bombs at mosques in the Midlands. By sheer coincidence nobody gets killed in the last blast but nails were embedded into wood up to 70 yards from the site of detonation.

 

That is it for terrorist attacks in the UK, the Lapshyn story never was as prominent as the Lee Rigby killing.

 

In the mean-time, not classed as terrorism but equally mindless, a random selection of murders in Sheffield alone:

 

1. Pizza delivery student gets killed on his last job.
    
   
2. Dad gets killed by yobs because he tells them to be quiet.
    
   
3. A student on a night out gets randomly beaten to death near West Street.
    
   
4. Just yesterday a man in Rotherham was walking through town when he got into an argument with youths, his reward was that he was stabbed several times.
   

 

It really doesn't take a genius to see which stories get more attention nationwide.

 

---------- Post added 16-12-2014 at 08:47 ----------

 

Acknowledging a problem is the first step towards a solution... you are doing Muslims no favour by encouraging them to stay in denial.

 

Acknowledge this problem Zamo: Most of these kids going to Syria (hundreds, not thousands but a bit of hyperbole never goes amiss) were toddlers when 9/11 happened. Toddlers here, in the UK, one might add. What do you think made them want to fight in Syria?

 

The fact that they were told they had to "acknowledge a problem" they never knew they had before. Acknowledging the problem puts you in a position where you have to decide: For or Against. Most young muslims are firmly against, but some decide for.

[Mecky]

More from the religion of peace http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30491435

[forum41]

The 'lone wolf' tag may fit the PC agenda but with the current international terrorism threat level having recently been raised to Severe, it's obviously been raised for a reason.

 

The threat comes principally from Al Qaida and related networks; and the Islamic State of Iraq and Levant (ISIL).

 

I don't doubt that the media have a big part to play in public perception with regards to the recent atrocities in the world, many of which are committed in the name of religion. I do have faith in our intelligence services though, & like to think they have access to slightly more information than the PC brigade would have us believe in order to substantiate the above.

[tzijlstra]

The 'lone wolf' tag may fit the PC agenda but with the current international terrorism threat level having recently been raised to Severe, it's obviously been raised for a reason.

 

The threat comes principally from Al Qaida and related networks; and the Islamic State of Iraq and Levant (ISIL).

 

I don't doubt that the media have a big part to play in public perception with regards to the recent atrocities in the world, many of which are committed in the name of religion. I do have faith in our intelligence services though, & like to think they have access to slightly more information than the PC brigade would have us believe in order to substantiate the above.

 

Yes, the reason being: Make sure people are scared stiff of muslims, that way they won't notice too much about the severe cuts we are making to their livelihoods in the name of austerity.

[mumkin]

Yes, the reason being: Make sure people are scared stiff of muslims, that way they won't notice too much about the severe cuts we are making to their livelihoods in the name of austerity.

 

Ahh, I see, it's all so clear now............it's all our fault (non Muslims)

[alchresearch]

Yes, the reason being: Make sure people are scared stiff of muslims, that way they won't notice too much about the severe cuts we are making to their livelihoods in the name of austerity.

 

I often wonder if its also to try and reduce immigration, to put them off coming to the country.