Ryedo40 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I didn't say religion had nothing to do with it. It's religion that gives them their excuse. You are right, you didn't say that. But when people say religion is an excuse or use religion as an excuse, it's usually attempt to shift the buck and absolve religion of any blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumkin Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 This is a good read.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30520596 "The vast majority of Pakistanis may be united in grief for the school children murdered in Peshawar - but many say they still don't know who carried out the attacks. For the media - both in Pakistan and abroad - the issue is clear enough: the Pakistani Taliban did it. Not only has the organisation claimed the attacks. but the intelligence service ISI also recorded real time messages from handlers to the gunmen in the school. Those messages, the ISI has told journalists, came from the phones of Afghan-based, Pakistani Taliban organisers. But in Peshawar even people who witnessed the attack hesitate to blame the Taliban by name. They not only fear reprisals but are also following the hesitancy of a political elite that remains largely unwilling to name and condemn the Pakistani Taliban in unequivocal terms". cont............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilldig Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 You are right, you didn't say that. But when people say religion is an excuse or use religion as an excuse, it's usually attempt to shift the buck and absolve religion of any blame. Religion is absolved of any blame though, because religion says,you shall not kill. It's just an excuse for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumkin Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 Religion is absolved of any blame though, because religion says,you shall not kill. It's just an excuse for them. Maybe not.............. The Quran: Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailyBoy Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Religion is absolved of any blame though, because religion says,you shall not kill. It's just an excuse for them. Have you read the Bible, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumkin Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 Have you read the Bible, for example. Certainly not read the Quoran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Religion is absolved of any blame though, because religion says,you shall not kill. It's just an excuse for them. OK then. According to you, religious books containing negative views about others don't influence negative views about others. They don't cause mistrust, hatred & fear of - increasing the propensity for violence - and they don't influence tribalism. I'll tell sociologists they've been wrong all this time. And that propaganda, in any shape or form, can't influence violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafya Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Maybe not.............. The Quran: Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief. It's easy to quote scriptures out of context, been done many times by muslim haters on SF....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 It's easy to quote scriptures out of context, been done many times by muslim haters on SF.......Take no notice, they're getting into the sprit of Christmas. "Peace on earth and good will towards all men" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilldig Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) It is easy to quote something wrong. It's like quoting the old testaments eye for an eye and not the new testaments,you shall not kill. In any case nobody should follow anything that tells them to kill. Edited December 20, 2014 by spilldig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts