Does god get fed up of having to forgive sex offenders and murderers ?

[RootsBooster]

I've just jumped back in to this but won't be able to go over other posts- so this one is randomly selected and the reason it may overlap is to avoid having to reply to numerous others...hopefully it may shed light on the points other posters raised.

How very convenient for you that you've missed several posts which showed how deeply broken your logic was for trying to argue the existence of objective morality/God. I shall try and keep my response brief for you now...

The moral argument is a strong argument for the existence of God (one of many theism uses- but I don't need to go in to the others if this one is still simmering).

 

Firstly, if not already mentioned, lets not confuse this with 'how we know what is right or wrong'. e.g. how knowledge is gained/accessed- those who are familiar with philosophy will know I am refering to moral epistemology- the moral argument is arguing from an ontological stance- moral ontology.

 

So it is the argument that God provides the only ontological basis for objective morality-that we have a intuitive sense of right and wrong, so where does this stem from, if not God?

There is no (objective) moral argument, your argument fell down at the first hurdle.

It was circular logic, this was explained and demonstrated to you over several posts (which you have conveniently missed).

 

If you take the atheist worldview, then we are nothing but matter, a by product of a lengthy evolution chain- so where does evolution allow for us to have this morals of knowing from right & wrong?

 

Why do we not judge animals (if that is what we are) when one species kills another, or one eats its own mate or offspring (as some do)- if we are animals, why are we not doing the same??

 

So atheistic evolution cannot logically explain morals. Real, objective moral right or wrong cannot exist if humans are the offspring of animals.

...so much wrong with the above, for starters, making the assumption that there is such a thing as an "atheist worldview" and making the assertion of what that might be, then using this invented position to ask a question of it?

Then, after falsely reinforcing your own opinions with your beliefs about what atheists believe, you fall back on personal incredulity as some kind of argument?

I could linger on this for a long time and this post will just go on and on- but I hope some of you get the jist.

I think you've done enough lingering, why not just give a concise definition of what you think objective morals are, accompanied by a straightforward example? That would save a lot of lingering and skating around the subject.

I already argued that social pressure gives no support for objective morals- and the Hitler regime is a perfect example of this- the Holocaust was opposed by many even if Nazi Germany felt is was right to do it.

 

Atheists (by logic) couldn't condemn Nazi Germanyif being obbjectively wrong if the view is held that we are nothing but animals, advancing our DNA etc..

 

There has to be some real objective point to give reason as to why we know somethings are morally right and some morally wrong- you know the phrase we hear ' it was morally right to do'- and before it crops up again, no one is saying atheists cannot be moral..of course they can and some are!

 

The argument is that for them to hold objective morals then there has to be something that trancends our human subjectivity.

 

Had I the time I would gladly go through the argument, premise by premise- but I don't unfortunately...and my wife will kill me if I spend our evening time on my laptop..out of working hours!

Who are these atheists that have condemned Nazi Germany for being objectively wrong?

no one is saying atheists cannot be moral..of course they can and some are!

...some Christians are too.

 

---------- Post added 12-01-2015 at 22:34 ----------

 

We never knew who paid for the schooling and people didn't know the situation !

Does that mean that in the absence of knowledge, you assumed it was God who payed?

[teeny]

How very convenient for you that you've missed several posts which showed how deeply broken your logic was for trying to argue the existence of objective morality/God. I shall try and keep my response brief for you now...

There is no (objective) moral argument, your argument fell down at the first hurdle.

It was circular logic, this was explained and demonstrated to you over several posts (which you have conveniently missed).

 

...so much wrong with the above, for starters, making the assumption that there is such a thing as an "atheist worldview" and making the assertion of what that might be, then using this invented position to ask a question of it?

Then, after falsely reinforcing your own opinions with your beliefs about what atheists believe, you fall back on personal incredulity as some kind of argument?

I think you've done enough lingering, why not just give a concise definition of what you think objective morals are, accompanied by a straightforward example? That would save a lot of lingering and skating around the subject.

Who are these atheists that have condemned Nazi Germany for being objectively wrong?

...some Christians are too.

 

---------- Post added 12-01-2015 at 22:34 ----------

 

Does that mean that in the absence of knowledge, you assumed it was God who payed?

 

No nobody knew the situation so God provided by somebody paying for us and we did try to find out who but we never could as paper work had not been filled in correctly !

[RootsBooster]

No nobody knew the situation so God provided by somebody paying for us and we did try to find out who but we never could as paper work had not been filled in correctly !

So it was human generosity, which comes back round to this...

It sounds like you saw that people helped your family and you decided that it was God's doing. Would that be fair to say?

Knowing that it was a person, a human being that paid for you, what led you to believe that God had something to do with it?

[teeny]

So it was human generosity, which comes back round to this...

 

Knowing that it was a person, a human being that paid for you, what led you to believe that God had something to do with it?

 

Knowing that God prompted a person to do that is the point I was making! It was God that told that person to do a kindness to a family who needed this

[RootsBooster]

Knowing that God prompted a person to do that is the point I was making! It was God that told that person to do a kindness to a family who needed this

What I'm asking is, what led you to believe it was God's doing, rather than just a person acting independently?

[anfisa]

Knowing that God prompted a person to do that is the point I was making! It was God that told that person to do a kindness to a family who needed this

 

Is that an example of free will because I think it would be difficult to refuse a God which would make their actions Gods will, and not human free will?

 

And would you accept that if God tells people to do a kindness he might also tell people to dish out punishments in the form of killing people?

[teeny]

What I'm asking is, what led you to believe it was God's doing, rather than just a person acting independently?

 

There was nobody where we were at that time who knew about us and what had happened ! As we loved miles from people ! And mum hadn't told anyone in the family what was going on ! So I believe God arranged that by prompting somebody to contact and pay for 2 years there

 

---------- Post added 13-01-2015 at 09:19 ----------

 

Is that an example of free will because I think it would be difficult to refuse a God which would make their actions Gods will, and not human free will?

 

And would you accept that if God tells people to do a kindness he might also tell people to dish out punishments in the form of killing people?

 

God doesn't tell us to judge and disaplin like that !

 

---------- Post added 13-01-2015 at 09:30 ----------

 

There was nobody where we were at that time who knew about us and what had happened ! As we loved miles from people ! And mum hadn't told anyone in the family what was going on ! So I believe God arranged that by prompting somebody to contact and pay for 2 years there

 

---------- Post added 13-01-2015 at 09:19 ----------

 

 

God doesn't tell us to judge and disaplin like that !if you remember the bible say thou shalt no kill ! QUOTE]

[RootsBooster]

There was nobody where we were at that time who knew about us and what had happened ! As we loved miles from people ! And mum hadn't told anyone in the family what was going on ! So I believe God arranged that by prompting somebody to contact and pay for 2 years there

 

So it's down to personal incredulity that you arrive at the conclusion that God caused this?

 

You didn't have the facts or knowledge of what actually happened so you decide to jump to the extraordinary conclusion, above all other possible explanations, that God made this happen?

[teeny]

So it's down to personal incredulity that you arrive at the conclusion that God caused this?

 

You didn't have the facts or knowledge of what actually happened so you decide to jump to the extraordinary conclusion, above all other possible explanations, that God made this happen?

 

I believe that God made this happen for his purpose ! I see God in all my life and that of my family ! God gave me to good parents to bring up and for that I am willing to see that he gave me his best and he's a God worth believing in and serving .

[RootsBooster]

I believe that God made this happen for his purpose ! I see God in all my life and that of my family ! God gave me to good parents to bring up and for that I am willing to see that he gave me his best and he's a God worth believing in and serving .

 

So, exactly like I said in my last post