Bonzo77 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Its very (read: not going to happen) hard for that happen. Greed is an integral part of what drives us as biological beings. We're not suddenly all going to become a hell of a lot more mindful and stop having children or wanting more for ourselves and our families. Whatever system you try to put in place, people will want to be in positions of power and control and engineer things such that they get more resources and power. Also, the people who run and benefit from current system, will resist change, to the point of starting wars; they're not just going to give up a good thing (for them) without a fight.. I have a bit more faith in humanity than you do. I think most of us would be happy as long as we know we have everything we need to provide for our families. Those in power need to be made obsolete. We don't have to cater to them if we don't want to. New currencies can be created. New laws can be created. New societies can be formed. Of we all work together, there's not a lot they can do about it. ---------- Post added 30-12-2014 at 12:03 ---------- Profit? By 2075 money won't even be a consideration. We will no doubt have a smaller global land mass (rising sea levels)so things will be tighter for everyone. Large parts of Africa and probably South America will be desert, both of which are increasing in size NOW. In 2014 we in the civilised UK are using techniques to scape out dregs of fossil fuels that can cause earthquakes. EARTHQUAKES. Want to hazard a guess what we'll be doing in 2075 for power? I do not. Profit margins? Bottom lines? Bottom line is we're screwed. If we carry on as we are doing, you're right, totally screwed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmer Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I have a bit more faith in humanity than you do. I think most of us would be happy as long as we know we have everything we need to provide for our families. Those in power need to be made obsolete. We don't have to cater to them if we don't want to. New currencies can be created. New laws can be created. New societies can be formed. Of we all work together, there's not a lot they can do about it. ---------- Post added 30-12-2014 at 12:03 ---------- If we carry on as we are doing, you're right, totally screwed! Faith is just belief in something without any evidence, it is not a virtue. "Those in power need to be made obsolete", you are not the first person to think this. In pretty much every revolution, things have gradually returned to normal. People in power at the top, and those numerous poorer folk at the bottom. Why would changing a currency make any difference? Shall we use bit coin? The Euro? The Bonzo faith sterling? Why do you think this would have any impact on the formation of a hierachical society? On wider note, if we lived in a contribution based society, why would anyone bother to study for 7 years to become a doctor, or work hard to become a lawyer, or biochemist? May as well just work at Tesco, if there is no personal gain that can be sought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo77 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Faith is just belief in something without any evidence, it is not a virtue. "Those in power need to be made obsolete", you are not the first person to think this. In pretty much every revolution, things have gradually returned to normal. People in power at the top, and those numerous poorer folk at the bottom. Why would changing a currency make any difference? Shall we use bit coin? The Euro? The Bonzo faith sterling? Why do you think this would have any impact on the formation of a hierachical society? Faith has kept billions believing in God's since the dawn of time. Creating and using a new currency, such as bit coins (there are other examples out there) would make the current financial industry obsolete. It would need to be nurtured and we would need to protect it from the same dirty hands that use our money at the moment. Or, we can sit back and let our earth be drained of all its natural resources, watch the gap between rich and poor continue to grow as the planet dries up? There's many options going forward. All I know us that we need to make drastic changes. On a wider note, if we lived in a contribution based society, why would anyone bother to study for 7 years to become a doctor, or work hard to become a lawyer, or biochemist? May as well just work at Tesco, if there is no personal gain that can be sought. You'll have to look into that, I wouldn't want to live in a contribution based society. I like capitalism; when it's controlled and regulated so it doesn't consume it's self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmer Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Faith has kept billions believing in God's since the dawn of time. Creating and using a new currency, such as bit coins (there are other examples out there) would make the current financial industry obsolete. It would need to be nurtured and we would need to protect it from the same dirty hands that use our money at the moment. Or, we can sit back and let our earth be drained of all its natural resources, watch the gap between rich and poor continue to grow as the planet dries up? There's many options going forward. All I know us that we need to make drastic changes. You'll have to look into that, I wouldn't want to live in a contribution based society. I like capitalism; when it's controlled and regulated so it doesn't consume it's self. And yet God has yet to appear. Keep your faith in human altruism if you like, though I fear you shall be waiting as long as our theist friends for your faith to be proven correct. Creating new currency would in no way make the financial system obsolete, just like the creation of the Euro did not make the system obsolete. Currency is the problem you are alluding to, not the type of currency we use. Human nature is to strive for what is best for ourselves and our loved ones. You can bang on about "changing human nature" so that this isn't the case, but that is about as likely as us evolving into winged beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo77 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 And yet God has yet to appear Which shows you just how strong faith can be ---------- Post added 30-12-2014 at 14:28 ---------- Creating new currency would in no way make the financial system obsolete, just like the creation of the Euro did not make the system obsolete. Currency is the problem you are alluding to, not the type of currency we use. Human nature is to strive for what is best for ourselves and our loved ones. You can bang on about "changing human nature" so that this isn't the case, but that is about as likely as us evolving into winged beings. Of cause you can change currency. Money isn't real. Bank notes are just a debt to the bank. None of its real. I never said we need to change human nature. I said greed would need to be a thing of the past. That's totally possible. All you need to do is regulate businesses and profits. Basically, the more a company earns, the more it gives to society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmer Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Which shows you just how strong faith can be ---------- Post added 30-12-2014 at 14:28 ---------- Of cause you can change currency. Money isn't real. Bank notes are just a debt to the bank. None of its real. I never said we need to change human nature. I said greed would need to be a thing of the past. That's totally possible. All you need to do is regulate businesses and profits. Basically, the more a company earns, the more it gives to society. It also shows you how fruitless faith is. I know you can change the currency, but you would just be swapping like for like. The currency isn't the problem you are speaking of. I know that Money only has the value that people put into it, but changing currency would just meaning changing the face on the bank note. Greed will never be a thing of the past, you can have faith that it will, but I deal in observable truths. Businesses and profits are already regulated and the more it earns, the more it already gives to society in tax and job creation. There is a reason that societies that have been based on collective contributionism have, without exception, failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo77 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 It also shows you how fruitless faith is. I know you can change the currency, but you would just be swapping like for like. The currency isn't the problem you are speaking of. I know that Money only has the value that people put into it, but changing currency would just meaning changing the face on the bank note. Greed will never be a thing of the past, you can have faith that it will, but I deal in observable truths. Businesses and profits are already regulated and the more it earns, the more it already gives to society in tax and job creation. There is a reason that societies that have been based on collective contributionism have, without exception, failed. I'm not talking about a contribution based society, said that earlier. I'm not talking about swapping currencies, like for like either. Take bit coins, for example. It's possible to use them to purchase goods etc. They're totally separate from the financial system. It's possible to build a society that doesn't rely on sterling at all. Currently, it's far too easy for businesses to avoid tax. Governments don't want to do anything about it. It's all well saying that they create jobs, but when people don't have money to spend, jobs are actually cut as a consequence. I'd like to see a totally new system set up, one that can run along side the existing one and hopefully take over completely. One that is based around capitalism but one that is heavily regulated and actually provides for everyone, not just the top 1%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I'm not talking about a contribution based society, said that earlier. I'm not talking about swapping currencies, like for like either. Take bit coins, for example. It's possible to use them to purchase goods etc. They're totally separate from the financial system. It's possible to build a society that doesn't rely on sterling at all. Currently, it's far too easy for businesses to avoid tax. Governments don't want to do anything about it. It's all well saying that they create jobs, but when people don't have money to spend, jobs are actually cut as a consequence. I'd like to see a totally new system set up, one that can run along side the existing one and hopefully take over completely. One that is based around capitalism but one that is heavily regulated and actually provides for everyone, not just the top 1%. Swap sterling for bit coins. Hopefully in 50 years we won't have burnt through all the rare earth minerals that help make computers and smart phones so we can use bit coins on our iphone 57. Currency will be totally irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anfisa Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I have a bit more faith in humanity than you do. I think most of us would be happy as long as we know we have everything we need to provide for our families. Those in power need to be made obsolete. We don't have to cater to them if we don't want to. New currencies can be created. New laws can be created. New societies can be formed. Of we all work together, there's not a lot they can do about it. ---------- Post added 30-12-2014 at 12:03 ---------- If we carry on as we are doing, you're right, totally screwed! What is this everything we need that you think everyone will be happy with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo77 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 What is this everything we need that you think everyone will be happy with? What do you think it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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