Are schools getting better?

[Bodie]

Thanks

[Anna B]

No, personally I don't think schools are getting better, and many are very set in their ways.We have to do a lot more to keep up with countries like China, where the kids expect to work so much harder at their education. That includes a longer school day, a lot more homework and Saturday classes as well. On top of that a lot of their outside interests are to do with science, computing, cultural and educational stuff. Chinese kids aren't allowed (or would expect) to ever waste their time.

 

I'm not saying that's right, but it is what we're up against in a Global society, if we want our kids to succeed.

 

We have 'child centred' education which is about the wellbeing of the child, in other words, soft. China's is about the bigger picture; the wellbeing of the country. It is considered to be every child's duty, (and in their own interests also,) to work hard in school so that they will become productive citizens. To that end the government invests heavily in education and training, and a little goes a long way in China.

We, on the other hand always seem to be scrimping and trying to do things on the cheap. (I know education is ring fenced, but the money goes to all the wrong places. With the money that's been invested/wasted over the years, we should have been able to cut class sizes in half.) And we don't train enough people properly any more, which is why we have to import people to do the jobs we used to do so well. Old skills are being lost and are not being replaced by new ones.

 

Many European schools are now teaching Chinese Mandarin as a foreign language. We barely teach French, and not well even then. Can you imagine us trying to teach Mandarin? Where is the forward planning?

 

Frankly, we are being left behind, and really need to pull our finger out, but once again the toffs at the top think an old fashioned Eton education is the best there is and should therefore still be the ideal model for the local Comp.

[Mecky]

Define better. A more appropriate question would be are pupils getting cleverer and able to think around problems rather than just regurgitate stuff? Yes, I think they are

 

---------- Post added 31-12-2014 at 06:47 ----------

 

There used to be good grammar schools, its the schools that few want to go to that are and have always been the problem. A problem of ineffeciency and those living nearby have no other choice but to attend a poor local school.

 

And yet Thatcher was the person who singularly converted more grammar schools into comprehensives. The old problems still existed with grammar schools – they could only take so many and the people who tended to be in the new intake were those whose parents could afford additional private tuition just to get them through, the doors although I am aware they were exceptions. Two-tierism rubbish for those with ideas above their station. That’s one is the eye for those with rightwing tendencies who often trot out the line, “Know your place.”

[tzijlstra]

No, personally I don't think schools are getting better, and many are very set in their ways.We have to do a lot more to keep up with countries like China, where the kids expect to work so much harder at their education. That includes a longer school day, a lot more homework and Saturday classes as well. On top of that a lot of their outside interests are to do with science, computing, cultural and educational stuff. Chinese kids aren't allowed (or would expect) to ever waste their time.

 

I'm not saying that's right, but it is what we're up against in a Global society, if we want our kids to succeed.

 

We have 'child centred' education which is about the wellbeing of the child, in other words, soft. China's is about the bigger picture; the wellbeing of the country. It is considered to be every child's duty, (and in their own interests also,) to work hard in school so that they will become productive citizens. To that end the government invests heavily in education and training, and a little goes a long way in China.

We, on the other hand always seem to be scrimping and trying to do things on the cheap. (I know education is ring fenced, but the money goes to all the wrong places. With the money that's been invested/wasted over the years, we should have been able to cut class sizes in half.) And we don't train enough people properly any more, which is why we have to import people to do the jobs we used to do so well. Old skills are being lost and are not being replaced by new ones.

 

Many European schools are now teaching Chinese Mandarin as a foreign language. We barely teach French, and not well even then. Can you imagine us trying to teach Mandarin? Where is the forward planning?

 

Frankly, we are being left behind, and really need to pull our finger out, but once again the toffs at the top think an old fashioned Eton education is the best there is and should therefore still be the ideal model for the local Comp.

 

Some flawed thinking here Anna. The most successful education system in the world is the Finnish system, where kids get more freedom and fewer hours than almost anywhere else. Generalising a bit in my reply for effect, obviously the below does not go for every Chinese or British student:

 

Chinese kids hate school, but the Chinese are compliant people and the school system is designed to ensure this remains the case.

 

I have met lots of Chinese students and although we get the cream of the crop there are still some concerning underlying weaknesses in Chinese students. For example a complete lack of a critical approach to the work they are asked to do.

 

My biggest bug bear with British students is that they expect to be spoon-fed. There is hardly any thinking outside of the box - a direct result of ridiculously closed curricula without any creative outlet. So whereas the Chinese students lack a critical approach to the work, the British lack critical thinking.

 

I do agree about languages. The foundation of human intelligence is language - understanding that is only possible by speaking more than one language - it also aids appreciation of foreign culture.

[cgksheff]

Some flawed thinking here Anna. The most successful education system in the world is the Finnish system, where kids get more freedom and fewer hours than almost anywhere else......

.

 

Please keep up.

Finland have slipped to 5th, below China.

UK is 6th in the Global League Tables.

 

http://m.thelearningcurve.pearson.com/index/index-ranking

 

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27314075

Edited December 31, 2014 by cgksheff

[tzijlstra]

Please keep up.

Finland have slipped to 5th, below China.

UK is 6th in the Global League Tables.

 

http://m.thelearningcurve.pearson.com/index/index-ranking

 

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27314075

 

Thanks for looking that up cgk, although I don't put much stock in league tables like this, if there ever was a case of comparing apples with pears than this is surely it.

 

China is making strides, there is some more liberalisation of schools and curricula, so hopefully they have indeed improved.

[cgksheff]

Thanks for looking that up cgk, although I don't put much stock in league tables like this, if there ever was a case of comparing apples with pears than this is surely it.

 

China is making strides, there is some more liberalisation of schools and curricula, so hopefully they have indeed improved.

 

Your welcome.

Without such reports/tables, how can you justify your claim that Finland has the best system in the world?

 

I would still say that social structure can have a greater influence on educational attainment rather than tinkering with what goes on in schools and colleges.

[tzijlstra]

Your welcome.

Without such reports/tables, how can you justify your claim that Finland has the best system in the world?

 

I would still say that social structure can have a greater influence on educational attainment rather than tinkering with what goes on in schools and colleges.

 

True, although I used it as illustration of the fact that longer days/more work is not necessarily the way to improve schools rather than as a fact.

 

Regarding the social structure: Strive is massively underrated in our society and should have more emphasis.

[spilldig]

Ooooh! Spot the zed.

If I spell realise as it should be spelt the spell checker comes on saying it was wrong. If people have never heard young people say computer without pronouncing the t they are very lucky.

The same goes for putting a g on the end of most words.

[altus]

Should be, or used to be 2 spaces after a full stop. Like that. 2 line spaces for new paragraph.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

Bodie (5 line spaces)

 

The space after full stops and between paragraphs has always been a formatting issue for typesetting. The convention you mentioned was invented when people used mechanical typewriters that couldn't do typesetting. Now we use computers, it's better to let them handle formatting things correctly.

 

Some examples:- If you put multiple spaces into a web page, it will only display one (unless you use a special non-breaking space). There is a document editor, called LyX, which is particularly suited to producing long reports or articles that need to be in a house style that doesn't even let you type two consecutive spaces - because it's a formatting issue. Similarly, if you want more space between paragraphs in a word processor you should change the style to have extra space between paragraphs - not add empty paragraphs. Then, if you change a style later on, you won't have to go though your document removing the extra empty paragraphs you inserted to try and get the document looking as you wanted.