Are schools getting better?

[aliceBB]

??????? You would cared?!?! >> you would care << Or You would have cared. NO?

Thank you for pointing that out (now corrected) but you need to calm down. The context, if nothing else, ensured that it would not confuse the reader in the way that the errors I was examining were likely to.

 

 

Not trying to make you look silly you did that on your own.

Yet another who cannot - or will not - punctuate in a standard, helpful, fashion!

 

 

Ex School teacher and we wonder why?

Perhaps I'd had enough of trying to help numpties like you! (Although, actually, that wasn't the reason, and you know nothing about me, so I suggest you mind your own business).

 

---------- Post added 31-12-2014 at 12:17 ----------

 

??? Those examples you gave here ^^ all have full stops before the capital letters. The "sentences whiteowl pointed out, didn't. They just had random capital letters for no reason.

 

Exactly. Glad someone was listening in English lessons, if not the randomly capitalising 'Candy cane'.

 

However, the ability to teach pupils to produce standard English - whether written or spoken - when appropriate, is not the only marker of 'a good school'. What else do people think matters?

 

For me, the attitude of the pupils (towards their education and towards other people) is equally crucial.

Edited December 31, 2014 by aliceBB

[Mister M]

No, personally I don't think schools are getting better, and many are very set in their ways.We have to do a lot more to keep up with countries like China, where the kids expect to work so much harder at their education. That includes a longer school day, a lot more homework and Saturday classes as well. On top of that a lot of their outside interests are to do with science, computing, cultural and educational stuff. Chinese kids aren't allowed (or would expect) to ever waste their time.

 

I'm not saying that's right, but it is what we're up against in a Global society, if we want our kids to succeed.

 

We have 'child centred' education which is about the wellbeing of the child, in other words, soft. China's is about the bigger picture; the wellbeing of the country. It is considered to be every child's duty, (and in their own interests also,) to work hard in school so that they will become productive citizens. To that end the government invests heavily in education and training, and a little goes a long way in China.

We, on the other hand always seem to be scrimping and trying to do things on the cheap. (I know education is ring fenced, but the money goes to all the wrong places. With the money that's been invested/wasted over the years, we should have been able to cut class sizes in half.) And we don't train enough people properly any more, which is why we have to import people to do the jobs we used to do so well. Old skills are being lost and are not being replaced by new ones.

 

Many European schools are now teaching Chinese Mandarin as a foreign language. We barely teach French, and not well even then. Can you imagine us trying to teach Mandarin? Where is the forward planning?

 

Frankly, we are being left behind, and really need to pull our finger out, but once again the toffs at the top think an old fashioned Eton education is the best there is and should therefore still be the ideal model for the local Comp.

 

Not sure I agree with you about the need for longer hours Anna. Education is pointless if there isn't a rounded person at the end of the process. There are things like 'Every Child Matters' and other such 'child centred measures', and I agree with the aims of ECM. However it is a bad reflection on our society that we even have to have the need for measures such as 'Every Child Matters', that should be intuitive.

 

Education can't be divorced from the society in which it functions; and I think that growing up in Britain today, in lots of ways, is tougher than it was when I was a youngster back in the 1980s. Sure we have information technology. But divorce rates are increasing, mass media generally is becoming more dumbed down, jobs are becoming more insecure, and the welfare state is being gradually eroded. This can be seen in the remorseless rise of poor mental health of young people, and study after study which show that lots of our youngsters are not coping.

[aliceBB]

 

Education can't be divorced from the society in which it functions; and I think that growing up in Britain today, in lots of ways, is tougher than it was when I was a youngster back in the 1980s. Sure we have information technology. But divorce rates are increasing, mass media generally is becoming more dumbed down, jobs are becoming more insecure, and the welfare state is being gradually eroded. This can be seen in the remorseless rise of poor mental health of young people, and study after study which show that lots of our youngsters are not coping.

 

 

So true. Schools can only work with the raw material (the children) they are given.

[dannie76]

Now I've stopped laughing, back to the main point. I'm lucky to be able to send my son to a brand new school which is doing wonders. He is not quite 5 years and I am amazed at how his teacher has quickly found his strengths in learning and used these to his advantage. I am hoping the school will be assessed as outstanding to relect the staffs hard work there. Unfortunately, or fortunately for my son, the attendance level is appauling which is down to the parents. I believe that during the primary years the parents are responsible for kids getting to school and getting this wonderful free education on offer. If parents don't support their kids then the kids well leave school with a below 'standard' ability to write and speak correctly.

 

I also think there is too much in the curriculum. More time should be spent on the basics of maths and english.

 

(Pick the bones out of my grammer if you want!)

[kris99]

My grandchild aged twelve has attended two primary and is presently at secondary school. In that time has had fourteen different headteachers, and stand ins in the form of acting heads, deputies etc. Two long standing headteachers left followed by teachers who rumour says were disillusioned by reasons given and I won't speculate about that. Morale seemed to hit rock bottom at both primary schools and this must surely affect the children. The thing is neither of the schools have made considerable improvements in the Ofsted tables and my question is, should the powers that be try harder and instead of teachers feeling under threat be given all the support they deserve.

[aliceBB]

My grandchild aged twelve has attended two primary and is presently at secondary school. In that time has had fourteen different headteachers, and stand ins in the form of acting heads, deputies etc. Two long standing headteachers left followed by teachers who rumour says were disillusioned by reasons given and I won't speculate about that. Morale seemed to hit rock bottom at both primary schools and this must surely affect the children. The thing is neither of the schools have made considerable improvements in the Ofsted tables and my question is, should the powers that be try harder and instead of teachers feeling under threat be given all the support they deserve.

In a word, yes.

[Anna B]

Some flawed thinking here Anna. The most successful education system in the world is the Finnish system, where kids get more freedom and fewer hours than almost anywhere else. Generalising a bit in my reply for effect, obviously the below does not go for every Chinese or British student:

 

Chinese kids hate school, but the Chinese are compliant people and the school system is designed to ensure this remains the case.

 

I have met lots of Chinese students and although we get the cream of the crop there are still some concerning underlying weaknesses in Chinese students. For example a complete lack of a critical approach to the work they are asked to do.

 

My biggest bug bear with British students is that they expect to be spoon-fed. There is hardly any thinking outside of the box - a direct result of ridiculously closed curricula without any creative outlet. So whereas the Chinese students lack a critical approach to the work, the British lack critical thinking.

 

I do agree about languages. The foundation of human intelligence is language - understanding that is only possible by speaking more than one language - it also aids appreciation of foreign culture.

 

Good points.

 

Chinese are not known for innovation or design skills either. The richer Chinese do still send their children to English universities to get a more all rounded education. But I still think a lot of British kids need to up their game.

[aliceBB]

Good points.

 

Chinese are not known for innovation or design skills either. The richer Chinese do still send their children to English universities to get a more all rounded education. But I still think a lot of British kids need to up their game.

 

It's the parents who need to up their game, surely?

[psynuk]

What's the yardstick we're using to compare these schools from times past to the current types?

 

It seems like a question you can't ever answer. Older people who had a good education will say they had it the best and all who go nowadays are doomed, vice versa for those who had a crap education. Similar opinion will sprout forth from the current attendees and yet more 'grass is greener' (or browner) regarding foreign school systems.

 

Personally I think the education in this country has been quite outstanding for the past 100 years or so and in that time, a lot of countries have caught up and so we all jostle for position on top of the pyramid with very little to separate them.

But you can't account for the willfully stupid, disruptive and idiotic students who pull the scores down. I think this is the main difference between past and present schooling, In the 'olden days' the behaviour was often worse and the effects of it made the environment worse, corporal punishment and pastings at home which led to further bad behaviour and disruption. Nowadays the problems are somewhat lessened so the lower and lowest achieving tier of students get a better deal and a better education. The highest achievers of all ages, times and nations have always done well so need not be considered when debating the issue.

 

Please feel free to correct spelling, syntax and punctuation if you like that sort of challenge

Edited January 1, 2015 by psynuk

[Anna B]

What's the yardstick we're using to compare these schools from times past to the current types?

 

It seems like a question you can't ever answer. Older people who had a good education will say they had it the best and all who go nowadays are doomed, vice versa for those who had a crap education. Similar opinion will sprout forth from the current attendees and yet more 'grass is greener' (or browner) regarding foreign school systems.

 

Personally I think the education in this country has been quite outstanding for the past 100 years or so and in that time, a lot of countries have caught up and so we all jostle for position on top of the pyramid with very little to separate them.

But you can't account for the willfully stupid, disruptive and idiotic students who pull the scores down. I think this is the main difference between past and present schooling, In the 'olden days' the behaviour was often worse and the effects of it made the environment worse, corporal punishment and pastings at home which led to further bad behaviour and disruption. Nowadays the problems are somewhat lessened so the lower and lowest achieving tier of students get a better deal and a better education. The highest achievers of all ages, times and nations have always done well so need not be considered when debating the issue.

 

Please feel free to correct spelling, syntax and punctuation if you like that sort of challenge

 

I'm sure that a lot of kids don't really value or appreciate their education, they certainly don't see it as a privilege, and neither do their parents. We really have to change that, and it's not for want of teachers trying.

 

There just seems to be this hard core, as you say, of wilfully stupid and disruptive pupils, who can have an adverse effect in a classroom far beyond their small number. It's such a pity. The amount of time and effort that goes into trying to get these kids on side is phenominal, and still doesn't always work. We are battling some serious psychological damage in some cases with very little help.

 

Unfortunately with more and more pressure on teachers, it's difficult to find sufficient time to do this well enough. And outside sources of help such as psychological services have been cut. I also read recently that for reasons unknown, the number of autism cases is increasing significantly. I don't know what the situation is these days, but when I was teaching, getting a child a 'statement of need,' then getting the child the actual help required, was very very difficult and in some cases could take years.