Life without big corporations.

[Bonzo77]

Is it based around very bad business sense? Because if not, they'd put up their prices.

Which is why we get food so cheap.

Small farmers might be struggling, but not large ones.

I'm going to shop where it's best for me to shop.

 

No, it's based around sustainability and good ethics. Something I know that you find hard to grasp. Unfortunately you're going to have to accept it, because it's the only way forward that doesn't lead to impending financial doom.

 

Of you think big farmers are doing well, you're mistaken. Follow the link to the TED speech I posted and you'll see that large scale farming is doing no good for farmers, which is why so many are joining the movement, and doing much better for it, financially and mentally.

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2015 at 19:52 ----------

 

Could you provide a link for that? Sounds an interesting read.

 

Follow the link I posted to the TED speech that Helena does.

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2015 at 19:55 ----------

 

There is reference to it on some dodgy looking sites but other sites have countered it with this.

 

What makes them look dodgy? The fact that they're not funded by billionaire media moguls?

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2015 at 19:56 ----------

 

Local farming cannot give me the produce that I may want.

 

No, but it can give you everything you need. The other stuff you want, can still be imported.

[Cyclone]

Is it only supermarkets this thread is about then, and not big companies generally?

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2015 at 21:05 ----------

 

Ethics doesn't mean selling produce at less than the market price.

 

And if you somehow kill supermarkets (something that won't happen) then business sense says that local prices will go up.

[anfisa]

 

F

 

What makes them look dodgy? The fact that they're not funded by billionaire media moguls?

 

The fact that they are not the UN website or a recognised legitimate source of information, if the UN said what was claimed you should be able to provide a link to that claim on the UN website.

[Cyclone]

No you're wrong according to a recent UN report - The worlds agricultural needs can all easily be met with localised organic farming. Smaller diversified farms use less land, waste and water but produce more food.

 

I didn't say that wasn't the case, so how can I be wrong about it.

 

Strawman.

[Obelix]

So, despite countless millions in the third world starving and import ecosystems are being trashed - the worlds agricultural are already being met. Really? I'd hate to see them not being met.

 

Actaully if you roll the numbers and look at it they are being met. It's just that a great deal of it goes to supply the West (and to a growing extent China) which means that African etc has a distinct deficit.

 

We could sort out this just about nowadays apart from two important issues - firstly the West gets bored with eating turnips and not having as much meat and dairy as it currently does. Secondly we are going to run out of oil eventually and artificial fertilizer.

 

Organic farming is a hippie wet dream at the moment. It'll work if and only if we nuke about 3 billion people off the world population.

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2015 at 23:00 ----------

 

 

And if you somehow kill supermarkets (something that won't happen) then business sense says that local prices will go up.

 

The lack of economic understanding never ceases to amaze me on here. People really ought to look at supply and demand theory for inelastic goods and the Laffer curve...

[psynuk]

So, despite countless millions in the third world starving and import ecosystems are being trashed - the worlds agricultural are already being met. Really? I'd hate to see them not being met.

 

There's plenty of food produced in the world, easily enough for all to live comfortably (2500cal/day).

But huge amounts are used to feed animals and for fuel rather than for eating.

According to the UN one third of all food produced is never eaten.

 

Many studies also show that organic food can be plentiful enough to feed the world, but that you couldn't just switch overnight as it requires more careful management than GM maize/soy crop rotation plied with chemical fertilisers does.

 

As for big corporations, theres nothing wrong with a big corp until there is.

Looking at the likes of monsanto who are trying with a few others to control the seed market it makes the prospect of a 'wind up girl' situation completely believeable and utterly horrifying.

 

The likes of BP, Walmart, bear stearns, aig, pfizer, glaxosmithkline, UCIL (bopal), chevron, are or were, all massive companies and have all at one time or another hugely overstepped the line of decency. Could we do without them? probably. Big companies do tend to do some things really well though and that is uniformity and consistency and reliability which are very desirable traits.

 

Would life be better if everything was small scale? I don't think so.

Or would it be better if morals and some sort of ethical standard wasn't left behind in the pursuit of money. A company doesn't have to be huge to be corrupt or damaging but the bigger they are the more they seem to get away with..

[Harleyman]

When I was a young lad we lived in a town where this was still the norm. It was lovely, every day we had to go to the shops. frequently I was sent out on my own, guilder firmly in my hand, to see if the milkman's shop still had some butter. or the general store still had some pepper corns.

 

problem with it was that it took at least 4 hours in the week to get everything, big advantage was that you genuinely got to know the other people in town by name... a lot of gossiping though.

 

Yeah I remember those good old days . Mother walking down to the grocer with her shopping bag, then on to the greengrocer for the veggies then to the butcher for the meat then on to the fishmongers for the Halibut We didn't have fridges so stored it in a small closet with stone shelves called a pantry. Milkman would come around on his quiet little electrical cart but the dogs would hear him anyway and start barking loud enough to wake the dead.

 

Then when mother got back completely knackered from carrying all the shopping bags she'd chew my arse out for still being in bed, make herself a cuppa tea and tune in the radio to "Housewife's choice"

 

That evening we'd all gather around our 17 inch black and white telly with one channel to watch a program in between the ""Normal service will resume as soon as possible" breaks.

 

I'll have to stop now as tears of nostalgia are just breaking me up

[Obelix]

We didn't have fridges so stored it in a small closet with stone shelves called a pantry.

 

Now this always confused me, because a cold room with the stone slabs was a larder where I grew up and the dried goods store, for say flour, and beans, and cereals and whatnot was the pantry...

 

Travel fifteen miles, and people called them different things...

[Harleyman]

Now this always confused me, because a cold room with the stone slabs was a larder where I grew up and the dried goods store, for say flour, and beans, and cereals and whatnot was the pantry...

 

Travel fifteen miles, and people called them different things...

 

And the part of Sheffield I grew up in the place where the fireplace coal was stored was called a "coal hole"

[Bonzo77]

Is it only supermarkets this thread is about then, and not big companies generally?

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2015 at 21:05 ----------

 

Ethics doesn't mean selling produce at less than the market price.

 

And if you somehow kill supermarkets (something that won't happen) then business sense says that local prices will go up.

 

No, this thread is about localisation, which would mean cutting out many of the large corporations (unless they dramatically change the way they operate).

 

Business sense also states that, if supermarkets don't act soon and start using local suppliers instead of supporting the globalisation of the food trade, they will go down.

 

---------- Post added 05-01-2015 at 07:22 ----------

 

The fact that they are not the UN website or a recognised legitimate source of information, if the UN said what was claimed you should be able to provide a link to that claim on the UN website.

 

I didn't claim that the UN said such a thing. However, I do know from several websites (which I find to be legitimate, you probably wouldn't, but that's not my problem), that the worlds agricultural needs can be met by localising.

 

---------- Post added 05-01-2015 at 07:30 ----------

 

The lack of economic understanding never ceases to amaze me on here. People really ought to look at supply and demand theory for inelastic goods and the Laffer curve...

 

Supply and demand doesn't even come into it when large scale farming is on the brink of imploding. All over the globe, farmers are moving toward localisation, because it offers more economic freedom. They can grow more crops, control their business better and converse directly with their customers. There's a massive global movement happening, right now. I know you knew about this though, due to your massive economic understanding

 

---------- Post added 05-01-2015 at 07:41 ----------

 

Yeah I remember those good old days . Mother walking down to the grocer with her shopping bag, then on to the greengrocer for the veggies then to the butcher for the meat then on to the fishmongers for the Halibut We didn't have fridges so stored it in a small closet with stone shelves called a pantry. Milkman would come around on his quiet little electrical cart but the dogs would hear him anyway and start barking loud enough to wake the dead.

 

Then when mother got back completely knackered from carrying all the shopping bags she'd chew my arse out for still being in bed, make herself a cuppa tea and tune in the radio to "Housewife's choice"

 

That evening we'd all gather around our 17 inch black and white telly with one channel to watch a program in between the ""Normal service will resume as soon as possible" breaks.

 

I'll have to stop now as tears of nostalgia are just breaking me up

 

Is this some sort of sarcastic, nostalgic jab? Trying to say that we've progressed to the mighty supermarket now? Where all things are under one roof?

 

The only benefit supermarkets offer is their convenience. Everything else about them is substandard, from the quality of their food, to the way they use and abuse their suppliers.