anfisa Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) And all that is relevant to the culture of Muslims living in non-Islamic countries...how? Are you suggesting that Muslim culture is impervious to its cultural surroundings over the ages? Bit of a tall claim, in fact it's so tall I can't see where it ends. I mean, it's not as if there haven't Muslim communities in western European countries for decades and centuries after the Quran and associated paraphernalia came about. Have you read anything about the background of the two identified perpetrators? Groomed by the likes of none other than Abu Hamza? Have you read that article I linked, by any chance? It might give you a bit of perspective Muslim relates to a person who follows the religion of Islam. Muslims consider the Quran to be the verbatim word of God as revealed to the Islamic prophet Muhammad. It can not be changed by man for it is the word of God, to change it or ignore it would be unIslamic. The attackers in question have simply followed the word of God as set down in their holy text, they absolutely believe that it was Gods will because it says it is in the book they follow. You can not ignore this fact. Edited January 8, 2015 by anfisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthenekred Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 And all that is relevant to the culture of Muslims living in non-Islamic countries...how? Are you suggesting that Muslim culture is impervious to its cultural surroundings over the ages? Bit of a tall claim, in fact it's so tall I can't see where it ends. I mean, it's not as if there haven't Muslim communities in western European countries for decades and centuries after the Quran and associated paraphernalia came about. By way of example, where was the fanaticism of Muslim Turks (a most significant majority, expectedly 95%+) when Ataturk turned the country over to republican secularism in 1923, after 7 centuries of Islamic rule? Save for the odd isolated attack every now and then, where has it been since? Have you read anything about the background of the two identified perpetrators? Groomed by the likes of none other than Abu Hamza? Have you read that article I linked, by any chance? It might give you a bit of perspective The term "going nowhere fast" springs to mind. ---------- Post added 08-01-2015 at 13:05 ---------- The attackers in question have simply followed the word of God as set down in their holy text, they absolutely believe that it was Gods will because it says it is in the book they follow. You can not ignore this fact. Someone who believes that the Quran word of God and lives by Then why isn't every Muslim murdering on the streets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmer Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I am, and will continue to be, however much interpreting of my posts and putting of words in my mouth you may do to try and satisfy your divisive, and clearly wrong, argument. I'm sure you know where you can shove that until it tickles your tonsils, preferably sideways And on this amount of illogical scrotum contents, I shall now leave you to your narrow mind and binary thinking, as you clearly aren't worth the time and bandwidth. You might want to read up on the prescriptive character of the Bible as regards social order and values, by the way. Stop being rude! I am far from narrow minded. I didn't put words in your mouth, I quoted you. I have never stated that the Qu'ran is any more hateful than the Bible, they are very similar books. I am not attacking Islam as you clearly seem to think. I started this by saying that actually, recently, Western culture has been more aggressive than Islamic culture. It is not bigotted, nor racist, to be able to intelligently identify issues with cultures. To walk around saying "there is no problem with culture x" is idiotic and niave. Why is my argument clearly wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Stop being rude!I like being rude But feel free to put me on your ignore list I have never stated that the Qu'ran is any more hateful than the Bible, they are very similar books.So where are your posts discussing Christians and the Bible to the same extent as you regularly discuss Muslims and the Quran? You know, like in this thread. I am not attacking Islam as you clearly seem to think.Perhaps not, but you are missing the context and point of my posts entirely. Edited January 8, 2015 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Decent article about the matter in today's Torygraph. That is an interesting article, I noted the reference to France's legacy from its colonialism history. Simon Heffer had something to say about it earlier. Please don't dismiss all he says entirely, just because its in the DM. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2901283/SIMON-HEFFER-France-land-tormented-history-hostility-natives-increasing-Muslim-population-grows.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmer Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I like being rude. So where are your posts discussing Christians and the Bible to the same extent as you regularly discuss Muslims and the Quran? You know, like in this thread. Perhaps not, but you are missing the context and point of my posts entirely. I never start threads so can only post on what others want to discuss. I am currently discussing the morality of the Christian God in the post about forgiving murderers. I have defended Muslims when they have needed to be defended and made objective points when I felt necessary. I have studied Islam and spent no small amount of time understanding the ideology as best as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anfisa Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The term "going nowhere fast" springs to mind. ---------- Post added 08-01-2015 at 13:05 ---------- Then why isn't every Muslim murdering on the streets? That is a question for them, there are likley many different reasons. They might not be true believers and are fearful of the consequences of leaving Islam. They have decided that some of the verses can be ignored. They are not 100% committed to their religion. They have not read all the holy texts. They interpret the text differentially to other Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) I have defended Muslims when they have needed to be defended and made objective points when I felt necessary.Where was your 'objectivity' when you twisted the meaning of my post and completely missed its point? I never posted, nor even suggested, that Islamic culture was perfect, you clearly and unambiguously inferred that from my post and put words in my mouth: There isn't a problem with Islamic culture. There is a problem with Islamist culture. And with terrorism.So you are saying that as there is no problem with Islamic culture, that the culture is perfect?When I corrected you (nicely, as I could have objected at your twisting of my post first-hand instead), you then came back for more by denying and then proceeded to give me your permission to 'change my footing': No. I'm saying the problem at hand is not attributable to Islam as a culture. There is a sizeable difference.No you aren't. But I shall allow you to change your footing. <...> You know what? I'm minded to be even ruder Don't worry, I'm not holding my breath for an apology either. And look forward to witness how you're going to shift the goalposts again. Edited January 8, 2015 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 That is a question for them, there are likley many different reasons. They might not be true believers and are fearful of the consequences of leaving Islam. They have decided that some of the verses can be ignored. They are not 100% committed to their religion. They have not read all the holy texts. They interpret the text differentially to other Muslims. Today is a day of mourning in France for those people who were gunned down, millions of Muslims will be among them, show a little respect and save your usual point scoring comments for another time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmer Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Where was your 'objectivity' when you twisted the meaning of my post and completely missed its point? I never posted, nor even suggested, that Islamic culture was perfect, you clearly and unambiguously inferred that from my post and put words in my mouth: When I corrected you (nicely, as I could have objected at your twisting of my post first-hand instead), you then came back for more by denying and then proceeded to give me your permission to 'change my footing': You know what? I'm minded to be even ruder Don't worry, I'm not holding my breath for an apology either. And look forward to witness how you're going to shift the goalposts again. You said there was no problem with Islamic culture. It seems as though I missed what you were trying to say. I can't see what I owe you an apology for, but I do extend one if I offended you or misrepresented you, it was not my intent. These things can happen over the internet. I would still suggest though, that these problems lie within the Islamic culture. My relatively in depth knowledge of Islam suggests that it is nigh on impossible to divorce the political and spiritual arms of Islam. It is different to Christianity in this sense. This does not mean that Islamic culture is "worse" than any other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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