Penistone999 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I suppose it has in the form of 7/7. ---------- Post added 07-01-2015 at 22:42 ---------- I guess you don't mind what happens to the owner of the forum then. Can't you just use the logo of the magazine (that's what I'm doing) If you want to really show your support, put it in your front room window. Why ? is it illegal to post cartoons on the tinternet , or are you suggesting we bow down to Islamists who believe a fictional figure is real ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 There isn't a problem with Islamic culture. There is a problem with Islamist culture. And with terrorism. It is a distinction that few recognise and unfortunately even fewer care about. In the 80's all English football clubs were banned from European competitions because of the actions of a violent minority. The whole English football community was punished because we had allowed our game to be brought into disrepute, we failed to challenge, our complacency allowed the problem to grow and as a result it hurt others. No doubt, some argued it was unfair to blame the whole community for what was a problem with a hooligan sub-culture. True or not it is a moot point. The fact is you cannot separate the two and therefore the point at which blame is going to be levelled has been reached. As you might say... c'est la vie. The term "going nowhere fast" springs to mind. And there you hit the nail on the head. The reality is you are not going to convince people that there is a separation of blame. Unless Muslims in the West collectively do something to tackle extremism and prevent attacks by people from within their culture then there will inevitably be an indiscriminate backlash by the least tolerant in other communities. That is only going to lead to tit-for-tat reprisals and things will quickly escalate out of control i.e. more and more people will reach their tolerance threshold (both non-Muslim and Muslim). I don't think there is anything funny about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anfisa Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Today is a day of mourning in France for those people who were gunned down, millions of Muslims will be among them, show a little respect and save your usual point scoring comments for another time. I would not feel the need to correct people if they did not feel the need to claim this was nothing to do with Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) I would still suggest though, that these problems lie within the Islamic culture.They don't. They lie in the misuse and misdirecting of theological beliefs by the few to gain then maintain power. No different in this respect to e.g. the catholic inquisition of yesteryear, the Red Brigades of a few decades ago, <etc. - insert armed and violent ideologically-motivated groups hereafter>. My relatively in depth knowledge of Islam suggests that it is nigh on impossible to divorce the political and spiritual arms of Islam. It is different to Christianity in this sense.So, casting back to a point of mine left unanswered/uncommented on, how does your in depth knowledge of Islam reconcile the incontrovertible (and impossible under your logic) facts that Turkey has been peopled in its very vast majority by Muslims for over 7 centuries, but that it has endured quite happily, and continues to endure quite happily, as a secular republic for close to a century? Edited January 8, 2015 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 They don't. They lie in the misuse and misdirecting of theological beliefs by the few to gain then maintain power. No different in this respect to e.g. the catholic inquisition of yesteryear, the Red Brigades of a few decades ago, <etc. - insert armed and violent ideologically-motivated groups hereafter>. So, casting back to a point of mine left unanswered/uncommented on, how does your in depth knowledge of Islam reconcile the incontrovertible (and impossible under your logic) facts that Turkey has been peopled in its very vast majority by Muslims for over 7 centuries, but that it has endured quite happily, and continues to endure quite happily, as a secular republic for close to a century? They sound real happy, "Now that Turkey has gone off the rails from its journey towards modernity, where does that leave us? The Islamists in Turkey are at the zenith of their power. They can be a difficult partner and even threaten to become an enemy to the West. Indeed, hostility towards the West is part of the conspiracy discourse that is widespread all over the Middle East. Nonetheless there are significant numbers of people in Turkey who are resisting, and who struggle for the survival of civility and modern life. And the outcome of our struggle for survival will have much broader global repercussions than Western policy makers would like to think. Can you imagine a Turkey without its secularists? It would lead to a Europe that is confined to its continent, and it would turn it into a prison for us." http://www.secularism.org.uk/blog/2014/11/the-rise-of-political-islam-in-turkey--how-the-west-got-it-wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 They don't. They lie in the misuse and misdirecting of theological beliefs by the few to gain then maintain power. As all religions are man-made fairy tales, it is impossible for any interpretation to be anything other than a misdirection. And as religion was designed by man to gain and maintain power over his fellow man, there is no misuse in that respect either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Muslim relates to a person who follows the religion of Islam. Muslims consider the Quran to be the verbatim word of God as revealed to the Islamic prophet Muhammad. It can not be changed by man for it is the word of God, to change it or ignore it would be unIslamic. The attackers in question have simply followed the word of God as set down in their holy text, they absolutely believe that it was Gods will because it says it is in the book they follow. You can not ignore this fact. It can be interpreted in many ways. Cat Stevens intereprets it as a very peaceful religion. One or two of the callers on 5live did, others did but only with the caveat that everyone should get along as they don't insult Islam. It was very interesting, and not black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) As all religions are man-made fairy tales, it is impossible for any interpretation to be anything other than a misdirection. And as religion was designed by man to gain and maintain power over his fellow man, there is no misuse in that respect either.I'll be sure to shop the local vicar as a dangerously-subversive hate preacher next time I run into our bobby, how's that? retep, see this about your link, and which is, I believe, better-balanced and more-on-the-money politically speaking insofar as Erdogan is concerned. Don't mistake conservatism for religious dogma: most religions share substantially the same conservative principles, and the fact that certain political parties will be pushing conservative (bordering on ultra-conservative) policies does not necessarily make them theologically-motivated at all. I very much doubt Erdogan would push 'islamization' (inasmuch as he may be, which I would dispute) to the point of a muslim republic à la Iran, wherein he'd have to take his marching orders from the clerics like Imadinnerjacket was. He's after staying at the helm 'democratically' as long as possible, i.e. without the help or assistance (or threat, for that matter) of the military putsches of yesteryear. More Assad-lite than Khomeiny-lite, in a nutshell Edited January 8, 2015 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anfisa Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 It can be interpreted in many ways. Cat Stevens intereprets it as a very peaceful religion. One or two of the callers on 5live did, others did but only with the caveat that everyone should get along as they don't insult Islam. It was very interesting, and not black and white. I agree that some people do think is is a peaceful religion, but that does not mean that its violent interpretation can simply be dismissed as being non Islamic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 It is disproportionately used as an excuse by the sicko's committing the violence. For example the trouble in Northern Ireland, religion was upheld as a difference, but the reason for the excuse was people who did and did not want NI to join the rest of Ireland. Whereas alot of recent trouble in the middle east is more a case of 'your religion is wrong, my religion is right, therefore I'm going to cut your head off' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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