Zamo Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'll be sure to shop the local vicar as a dangerously-subversive hate preacher next time I run into our bobby, how's that? The fact that the local vicar is not be a dangerous subversive does not change the fact that all religion is man-made misdirection. It also doesn't change the fact that it is design to control people and it does so very wll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I would not feel the need to correct people if they did not feel the need to claim this was nothing to do with Islam.Its got as much to do with Islam as atheism atrocities in Russian history were to do with peaceful followers of the Karl Marx ideology. Islamic terrorists are people masquerading as religious people, they will find any excuse to commit brutal murders when they think their cultural identity is being threatened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmer Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 They don't. They lie in the misuse and misdirecting of theological beliefs by the few to gain then maintain power. No different in this respect to e.g. the catholic inquisition of yesteryear, the Red Brigades of a few decades ago, <etc. - insert armed and violent ideologically-motivated groups hereafter>. So, casting back to a point of mine left unanswered/uncommented on, how does your in depth knowledge of Islam reconcile the incontrovertible (and impossible under your logic) facts that Turkey has been peopled in its very vast majority by Muslims for over 7 centuries, but that it has endured quite happily, and continues to endure quite happily, as a secular republic for close to a century? I must point out that I said relatively in depth. I would say that compared to the average person in this country (even the average Muslim), I am very knowledgeable. Compared to scholars who have spent their lives reading around the subject, I am ignorant. Turkey is a strange one, and a model that I wish others followed. Turkey is absolutely the exception rather than the rule. It is an interesting question you pose, one that is fairly difficult to answer. There was some resistance in the early days of Turkey's move towards secularism, but you are right in that the move has been fairly successful. I would suggest that the Turkish people were crying out for change after centuries of decline of Ottoman influence. The people were desperate and facing financial hardship, environments that are ripe in which to foster change. Islamic influence of Turkish politics has been growing steadily since the late 70's, with the Iranian revolution being a catalyst. The current ruling party, the AKP, is an Islamist Party that is trying to move away from it's roots. When it's predecessor, the Virtue Party, was found to be unconstitutional, due to it's militant Islamism was disbanded, many of the founders of that Party started the AKP. Turkey's secularism is defended and imposed by the military. Turkey is by far the most secular state in the Islamic world, but it's ruling Party is one that has heavy non-secular roots. This party has over 2/3rds of the seats in parliament, so it won by a landslide. So it actually isn't as secular as you would believe, but it is the only state of the 57 Islamic states in the world, that is even remotely secular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anfisa Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Its got as much to do with Islam as atheism atrocities in Russian history were to do with peaceful followers of the Karl Marx ideology. Islamic terrorists are people masquerading as religious people, they will find any excuse to commit brutal murders when they think their cultural identity is being threatened. Islamic terrorists are Muslims following the religion of Islam, they follow it to the letter without ignoring verses of the Koran, this gives them the justification to commit atrocities. If Islam was not in their life it is very likley that they would not be killing people, certainly not for drawing cartoons of a man. Edited January 8, 2015 by anfisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Its got as much to do with Islam as atheism atrocities in Russian history Atheism atrocities? How does that work then - "I kill you in the name of something that doesn't exist"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz1 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Atheism atrocities? How does that work then - "I kill you in the name of something that doesn't exist"? Think the person was refering to secular ideologies, which were or are steeped in an athiestic worldview. Though this shouldn't digress from the thread itself. I do question this sudden 'freedom of speech' by the French when they were the first to ban pro Palestine demos in light of the killings in Gaza. http://rt.com/news/173412-france-palestinian-israel-protest/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Atheism atrocities? How does that work then - "I kill you in the name of something that doesn't exist"?Its "I kill you because you don't share my belief" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailyBoy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Its got as much to do with Islam as atheism atrocities in Russian history were to do with peaceful followers of the Karl Marx ideology. Islamic terrorists are people masquerading as religious people, they will find any excuse to commit brutal murders when they think their cultural identity is being threatened. To balance up the equation, some Nazi divisions had 'Gott Mit Uns' on their belt buckles. Also Were Russians killed to promote atheism, didn't read that in history books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Emotions are understandably running pretty high in France at the moment. Will this attack serve to increase support for right wing political groups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'll be sure to shop the local vicar as a dangerously-subversive hate preacher next time I run into our bobby, how's that? retep, see this about your link, and which is, I believe, better-balanced and more-on-the-money politically speaking insofar as Erdogan is concerned. Don't mistake conservatism for religious dogma: most religions share substantially the same conservative principles, and the fact that certain political parties will be pushing conservative (bordering on ultra-conservative) policies does not necessarily make them theologically-motivated at all. I very much doubt Erdogan would push 'islamization' (inasmuch as he may be, which I would dispute) to the point of a muslim republic à la Iran, wherein he'd have to take his marching orders from the clerics like Imadinnerjacket was. He's after staying at the helm 'democratically' as long as possible, i.e. without the help or assistance (or threat, for that matter) of the military putsches of yesteryear. More Assad-lite than Khomeiny-lite, in a nutshell Bad timing? " Time to crack down on 'Islamophobia', Turkey's Erdogan tells EU" http://news.yahoo.com/time-crack-down-islamophobia-turkeys-erdogan-tells-eu-202705854.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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