skinz Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 It will never happen. Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever. Never. Alice may be of the same opinion, but she did qualify with "hope". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 It will never happen. Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever. Never. How can you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Be careful not to offend anybody on sf with your posts? :confused:Ta anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sibon Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Does my freedom of speech allow me to say what a truly repulsive man Hamza was (or still is, just banged up!) Oh, you are ok to say that. I guess that 99.999% of Britons agree with you. First time for everything, I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 How can you know? I just don't think you can hate something ie the west, kick against it and try to destroy it so much and at the end be jailed for it and then convert. I think of terrorists of the past who did move to the centre ground, Martin mcguinness springs to mind, and he was prepared to give a bit. I don't see abu hamza renouncing his views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen66 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Well we have seen loads of bs this week so why not end it with some more. Abu Hamza was the son of a naval officer and a primary school headmistress. . One of Abu Hamza's first major engineering contracts took him to the Royal Military Training Academy at Sandhurst. At his US trial Abu Hamza said he lost his hand and eye while he was working with the Pakistani military in Lahore. According to Abu Hamza himself MI5 first contacted him in 1997. Just remind me again. Who does he actually work for. 1993 interview. Trained in Pakistan by their army with the blessing of the CIA. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5xO11_9Wxs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 It begs the question as to why he was never prosecuted here, why the need for US justice to prevail? Possible that their intelligence community had collected much better evidence than ours, they had followed him for longer and caught him in the act. or They told the judge to bang him up, no questions no messing around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I just don't think you can hate something ie the west, kick against it and try to destroy it so much and at the end be jailed for it and then convert. I think of terrorists of the past who did move to the centre ground, Martin mcguinness springs to mind, and he was prepared to give a bit. I don't see abu hamza renouncing his views. Your 'not seeing it' does not mean it categorically will not happen. My point was that the war against people like Hansa will not be won if it is ever won) by military force/police states/a reign of terror by the authorities, but by changing hearts and minds. I don't think the US prison system is renowned for doing that (it tends to brutalise and radicalise people even further), but it is logically the only hope, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Your 'not seeing it' does not mean it categorically will not happen. My point was that the war against people like Hansa will not be won if it is ever won) by military force/police states/a reign of terror by the authorities, but by changing hearts and minds. I don't think the US prison system is renowned for doing that (it tends to brutalise and radicalise people even further), but it is logically the only hope, isn't it? If the Russians had gt hold of hitler in 1945 do you think he'd convert, have remorse? You can hope I suppose but it wouldn't be based on logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 If the Russians had gt hold of hitler in 1945 do you think he'd convert, have remorse? You can hope I suppose but it wouldn't be based on logic. It is not logical to predict how a person will behave or feel after 25 years' incarceration for heinous crimes. It gives them a lot of time to think about the consequences of their actions, about what is important in life, to read/study, to understand. He's by definition a very dangerous, but very damaged human being. It's not normal to be like him (or like Hitler, or Idi Amin, or Stalin). If we accept that people are not born evil, but that we all have a greater or lesser potential to be warped by eveil, then we must conclude that something has gone horribly wrong, somewhere along the line, in his moral, social and emotional development. The challenge would be to reverse that. It is possible, but you may be right in saying that he is too warped to be recoverable. Only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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