mjw47 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 You there, the atheist agnostic in the back... ...where's your source for this odd definition? ...where's your source for this claim? There is a word for someone who keeps arguing a point long after he has been proven to be wrong. That word describes you perfectly. Your first question. http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CGgQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oxforddictionaries.com%2Fdefinition%2Fenglish%2Fbelief&ei=3va4VM3OLuWC7ga8jYDIAQ&usg=AFQjCNGlsryLj-UqJ0SPETfBBh6g_qNNFQ&bvm=bv.83829542,d.ZGU&cad=rja They include the word 'especially'. Your second question. http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CDcQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAgnosticism&ei=zPe4VNuCNeWs7Abbx4HwCQ&usg=AFQjCNGfRsjv3T9aLdZ339dud8iSxaho1Q We even know the mans name Thomas Henry Huxley. Both of these links have been posted before. Now you are good at asking questions so why don't you answer the one that I asked you at post 134. Have you managed to work out yet why three words with differing meanings are required to explain the three differing views? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) I know the meaning, but are you aware there are roughly 18 verses in the Bible where your God is obviously not omnipresent/omniscient - contradicting the few verses claiming your God is omnipresent/omniscient? where are they ? have you read them in the correct context of what is being said to you ? Have you? Not surprised you haven't. Seems to be common amongst those who claim to be Christian to know next to nothing about the religion or the religious stories they claim to follow and understand. I'll post three examples contradicting the claim that the biblical God is omnipresent/omniscient: Gen 3.8 "Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD" How is that possible if your God is omnipresent? Gen 3:9 "And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?" Why didn't your God know? He's omnipresent/omniscient isn't he? --- Gen 11:5 "And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower" A God that is omnipresent/omniscient wouldn't have to come down to see the tower. God is already there if He is omnipresent. --- Gen 18:20 "And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great...18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know." Again, an omnipresent/omniscient God would not have to go down to see what was going on. It would already be there or know all about it without being there. --- And please, don't copy and paste apologia from websites. Read the bible and use your own reasoning. Omnipresent/omniscient God is nothing more than theological invention; there's no known tangible evidence for such a being. Edited January 16, 2015 by Ryedo40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeny Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Have you? Not surprised you haven't. Seems to be common amongst those who claim to be Christian to know next to nothing about the religion or the religious stories they claim to follow and understand. I'll post three examples contradicting the claim that the biblical God is omnipresent/omniscient: Gen 3.8 "Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD" They covered up their nakedness as they suddenly realised they had nothing covering them ! they still couldn't hid from God How is that possible if your God is omnipresent? Gen 3:9 "And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?" He wanted Adam to come before him , he was allowing Adam free will to come to him or not ! Why didn't your God know? He's omnipresent/omniscient isn't he? My God was there --- Gen 11:5 "And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower" A God that is omnipresent/omniscient wouldn't have to come down to see the tower. God is already there if He is omnipresent. He wanted Man to invite him to the tower because he wanted to be welcome in their lives , so as not force his will upon them , My God was there . --- Gen 18:20 "And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great...18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know." He again wanted them to come to him from the sin they were in ! so again my God was present Again, an omnipresent/omniscient God would not have to go down to see what was going on. It would already be there or know all about it without being there. --- And please, don't copy and paste apologia from websites. Read the bible and use your own reasoning. Omnipresent/omniscient God is nothing more than theological invention; there's no known tangible evidence for such a being. To me that is evidence put in a better way than I can explain but it says what I know and understand. God is everywhere its a mis conception that he isn't , he doesn't force us into believing in him , he doesn't want slaves or robots , we have free will Edited January 16, 2015 by teeny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 There is a word for someone who keeps arguing a point long after he has been proven to be wrong. That word describes you perfectly. Cool, more insults! http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CGgQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oxforddictionaries.com%2Fdefinition%2Fenglish%2Fbelief&ei=3va4VM3OLuWC7ga8jYDIAQ&usg=AFQjCNGlsryLj-UqJ0SPETfBBh6g_qNNFQ&bvm=bv.83829542,d.ZGU&cad=rja They include the word 'especially'. Yeah, so you made your quote up, deliberately smiffing missing out words to make it suit your argument. That kind of behaviour costs your credibility in debate. Your second question. http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CDcQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAgnosticism&ei=zPe4VNuCNeWs7Abbx4HwCQ&usg=AFQjCNGfRsjv3T9aLdZ339dud8iSxaho1Q We even know the mans name Thomas Henry Huxley. Both of these links have been posted before. Now you are good at asking questions so why don't you answer the one that I asked you at post 134. Have you managed to work out yet why three words with differing meanings are required to explain the three differing views? That only works with his assumption that atheism means you have to believe that there is no God or gods, which we know isn't the case. ---------- Post added 16-01-2015 at 13:41 ---------- Precisely all Atheists have an absence of belief in the existence of God(s). However, They make no allowance for the possibility there may be such a being. Because that would be contradictory to being an Atheist wouldn't it? What makes you think this? I'm an atheist and I make allowance for the (however improbable) possible existence of God or gods. How would it contradict being an atheist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailyBoy Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 To me that is evidence put in a better way than I can explain but it says what I know and understand. God is everywhere its a mis conception that he isn't , he doesn't force us into believing in him , he doesn't want slaves or robots , we have free will Your god promises to punish those who choose not to believe, seems unfair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Cool, more insults! Yeah, so you made your quote up, deliberately smiffing missing out words to make it suit your argument. That kind of behaviour costs your credibility in debate. Your second question. That only works with his assumption that atheism means you have to believe that there is no God or gods, which we know isn't the case. ---------- Post added 16-01-2015 at 13:41 ---------- What makes you think this? I'm an atheist and I make allowance for the (however improbable) possible existence of God or gods. How would it contradict being an atheist? Show me where I claimed it was a quote? Does every single thing you ever comment on come from someone elses definition? Do you never get asked a question and simply answer it using your own thoughts on the matter? I didn't seek out a definition before making the comment. Now, show me where the definition which I gave is contradicted by the Oxford dictionary definition. Most people being told that someone is an Atheist take it to mean that that person does not believe in God. The nuances and complexities of there being shades of Atheism mean nothing to them. If you make an allowance for the possible existence of God then you sound like an Agnostic to me. However, unlike you, I am not an ignorant troll, so I am willing to accept your assertion that you are an Atheist. Answer the question as asked, don't wiggle, don't deflect. How do you explain the requirement for three different words with three differing meanings to explain the three differing views? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 To me that is evidence put in a better way than I can explain but it says what I know and understand. The bible doesn't say any of what you've written. What you've done is start with the assumption that your God is omnipresent/omniscient. When problems arise with that assumption, you end up putting words into your God's mouth. And this is typical of theologians and theists. He wanted Adam to come before him , he was allowing Adam free will to come to him or not ! The bible doesn't say that. It says Adam/Eve hid from the presence of the Lord. And the Lord asked "Where art thou?" He wanted Man to invite him to the tower because he wanted to be welcome in their lives , so as not force his will upon them , My God was there. The bible doesn't say man invited your God to the tower(suggesting you're God wasn't already there). It says the Lord came down to see the city and the tower. An omnipresent/omniscience God would already be there. There would be no coming down to see. When he saw what was going on, and not liking it, he then forced his will on them(Gen 11:7) - completely the opposite of your claim "so as not force his will upon them" He again wanted them to come to him from the sin they were in ! so again my God was present Where does it say your God was present before He came down to see what was going on? It doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeny Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Your god promises to punish those who choose not to believe, seems unfair? But as i said in another thread to you Snail boy , you have freewill to follow or not to follow its your choice and if you dont want to know God on earth , why would you want to know him in eternity ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Show me where I claimed it was a quote? Does every single thing you ever comment on come from someone elses definition? Do you never get asked a question and simply answer it using your own thoughts on the matter? I didn't seek out a definition before making the comment. Now, show me where the definition which I gave is contradicted by the Oxford dictionary definition. Most people being told that someone is an Atheist take it to mean that that person does not believe in God. The nuances and complexities of there being shades of Atheism mean nothing to them. If you make an allowance for the possible existence of God then you sound like an Agnostic to me. So basically, to hell with established definitions, you'll pick/choose/alter/invent your own? However, unlike you, I am not an ignorant troll, so I am willing to accept your assertion that you are an Atheist. Answer the question as asked, don't wiggle, don't deflect. Which question, do you mean the below or another one? How do you explain the requirement for three different words with three differing meanings to explain the three differing views? Not sure what you want from me, it sounds like you just answered your own question, three different things have three different names because they are three different things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeny Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The bible doesn't say any of what you've written. What you've done is start with the assumption that your God is omnipresent/omniscient. When problems arise with that assumption, you end up putting words into your God's mouth. And this is typical of theologians and theists. The bible doesn't say that. It says Adam/Eve hid from the presence of the Lord. And the Lord asked "Where art thou?" The bible doesn't say man invited your God to the tower(suggesting you're God wasn't already there). It says the Lord came down to see the city and the tower. An omnipresent/omniscience God would already be there. There would be no coming down to see. When he saw what was going on, and not liking it, he then forced his will on them(Gen 11:7) - completely the opposite of your claim "so as not force his will upon them" Where does it say your God was present before He came down to see what was going on? It doesn't. If you really understood you would see God is there all the time. This is my understanding of what the Bible is teaching us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now