mjw47 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I agree you can have a non-committed view. Although if you don't hold a positive belief in the existence of something, then the positive belief in the existence something must be absent. I'd say I don't know what is around the corner. What actually exists around the corner would not exist to me(I'd have no knowledge or awareness of it). I'd have an absence of belief in its existence until what exists around the corner becomes evident. The above is why atheism and agnosticism are not incompatible: you can be both. Can't agree with that ( I know, you're shocked ) non committed is exactly that, non committed, you can't then start to lean toward one side or the other, it takes away the neutrality of the position. As for the corner, given that Atheists have a view without proof I don't think that would be your reply if you stuck to an Atheist way of looking at things. An Agnostic would say " I'm sorry I don't know". An Atheist would say " Nothing mate it's never had anything around there, don't bother going". A Theist would say " Oh you really must go around that corner, it's absolutely wonderful, there's the best pubs and restaurants in town and a choir singing beautiful songs, you're bound to meet someone you know". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog D Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 A Theist would say " Oh you really must go around that corner, it's absolutely wonderful, there's the best pubs and restaurants in town and a choir singing beautiful songs, you're bound to meet someone you know". Great! You sold me when it got to the pubs no need to layer it on to thick or they'll all want a piece of the action:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 A Theist would say " Oh you really must go around that corner, it's absolutely wonderful, there's the best pubs and restaurants in town and a choir singing beautiful songs, you're bound to meet someone you know". Great! You sold me when it got to the pubs no need to layer it on to thick or they'll all want a piece of the action:) I deliberately left out the 72 virgins because I didn't want to get reprobates like you over excited but obviously I overcooked it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) As for the corner, given that Atheists have a view without proof I don't think that would be your reply if you stuck to an Atheist way of looking at things. You've already agreed with me on a previous post that atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of God(s). I think I've pointed this out quite clearly: What actually exists around the corner would not exist to me(I'd have no knowledge or awareness of it). I'd have an absence of belief in its existence until what exists around the corner becomes evident. Atheism is the absence of belief. That is all that is required to be an atheist. An atheist does not have to assert a God does not exist; and even if he or she did, it would be secondary to atheism, not necessary. ---------- Post added 18-01-2015 at 19:30 ---------- A Theist would say " Oh you really must go around that corner, it's absolutely wonderful, there's the best pubs and restaurants in town and a choir singing beautiful songs, you're bound to meet someone you know". And then blindly fall down a ravine because you didn't look around the corner to see if there was a pub, restaurant, etc. Edited January 18, 2015 by Ryedo40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 You've already agreed with me on a previous post that atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of God. I think I've pointed this out quite clearly: What actually exists around the corner would not exist to me(I'd have no knowledge or awareness of it). I'd have an absence of belief in its existence until what exists around the corner becomes evident. Atheism is the absence of belief. That is all that is required to be an atheist. An atheist does not have to assert a God does not exist; and even if he or she did, it would be secondary to atheism, not necessary. I think the problem here is that the definition of Atheism has been altered for whatever reason over the years. Being an old git I stick to the original meaning. 'Without God' is a very straightforward unequivocal and definite statement of opinion. To me if you're then going to prevaricate and claim that it's not quite like that, you don't really mean that you are literally ' Without God ' then maybe you should begin to wonder if the description actually applies to you. If you then accept that whilst there may be a God or there may not be a God you can't believe totally in either concept because you admit that you don't actually know then it sounds like agnosticism doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog D Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Great! You sold me when it got to the pubs no need to layer it on to thick or they'll all want a piece of the action:) I deliberately left out the 72 virgins because I didn't want to get reprobates like you over excited but obviously I overcooked it anyway. :hihi: Wouldn't have time for 'em anyway:hihi: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog D Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I deliberately left out the 72 virgins because I didn't want to get reprobates like you over excited but obviously I overcooked it anyway. :hihi: Wouldn't have time for 'em anyway:hihi: Oh yeah, Reprobate is a bit harsh as the calvinist meaning of this is that I'm a sinner destined for eternal damnation. Which...............coming from an agnostic with an obvious sense of humour I will take in the manner of which I'm sure it was meant:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 :hihi: Wouldn't have time for 'em anyway:hihi: Oh yeah, Reprobate is a bit harsh as the calvinist meaning of this is that I'm a sinner destined for eternal damnation. Which...............coming from an agnostic with an obvious sense of humour I will take in the manner of which I'm sure it was meant:) Thank you young man, it was indeed meant in a friendly way. No expert on Calvinism, but I vaguely think it has something to do with Presbyterianism, what little I know leads me to believe that they are under the impression that we are all destined for eternal damnation, with the exception of them there Calvinists of course. Presbyterians have always struck me as less than a bundle of laughs. Not party animals if you get my drift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog D Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Oh yeah, Reprobate is a bit harsh as the calvinist meaning of this is that I'm a sinner destined for eternal damnation. Which...............coming from an agnostic with an obvious sense of humour I will take in the manner of which I'm sure it was meant:) Thank you young man, it was indeed meant in a friendly way. No expert on Calvinism, but I vaguely think it has something to do with Presbyterianism, what little I know leads me to believe that they are under the impression that we are all destined for eternal damnation, with the exception of them there Calvinists of course. Presbyterians have always struck me as less than a bundle of laughs. Not party animals if you get my drift. You may have a point, There was an old saying flying around once upon time that no decent Catholic church was more than 50 yards from a pub!. Quite logical when you consider the feast days that need strict adherence too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeny Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The direction of your questioning towards Teeny over recent posts looks like there's a certain amount of baiting going on! I can't see him advocating the literal interpretation of a passage from Deuteronomy which must be at least 3500 years old if it's a day. Although I don't know Teeny I get the idea that he's expressing a Christian outlook, which as you know, is new testament based. Therefore trying to get him to provide an eloquent and rational answer on something he's probably never studied.Which is in the old testament, allegedly written by Moses seem a bit unfair to say the least. I don't understand your motive and can't see where your going with this debate. We can all select "snippets" from the books in the bible and history to justify our actions and questions today if we want to. This is not a new concept and it's been done for centuries! The same questions have been asked and the same answers given. My suggestion to everybody on this forum is to look for the humanity in others and appreciate their differences. I am a she , we did study the old testament when I was younger and still do but because we under the new covenant most teaching is from the new testament , I still notice despite the debate here that most people would rather wait for heavens eternity. ---------- Post added 19-01-2015 at 17:45 ---------- Thank you young man, it was indeed meant in a friendly way. No expert on Calvinism, but I vaguely think it has something to do with Presbyterianism, what little I know leads me to believe that they are under the impression that we are all destined for eternal damnation, with the exception of them there Calvinists of course. Presbyterians have always struck me as less than a bundle of laughs. Not party animals if you get my drift. You may have a point, There was an old saying flying around once upon time that no decent Catholic church was more than 50 yards from a pub!. Quite logical when you consider the feast days that need strict adherence too! at the end of the day they are a branch of the christian churches like , baptist, methodist etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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