Heaven's eternity or eternal earthly wealth?

[RootsBooster]

I hope these last few posts have illustrated that there is an option of Undecided.

 

Nobody's claiming that you can't be undecided, you're denying that being undecided means that you don't have a belief yet.

[harvey19]

Okay we could do with finding out just exactly what you think the word "belief" means.

Care to share?

I think you are fully aware what belief means and the point is whether one can be undecided, believe or not believe in God.

[mjw47]

What you're suggesting is a 50:50 split, not leaning at all one way or the other.

 

In an earlier post you admitted to not really believing in the Christian god, as described by the Catholic church.

 

So, it seems your needle on the belief gauge is in the negative.

 

No not at all, it only means that you lack any kind of ability to think outside standard parameters, you are seemingly devoid of imagination and the ability to think without the constraints imposed on you by your obsession.

 

For what it's worth, this is what I think about the possible existence of a Creator.

 

No earthly religion has the truth. A Creator that made the Universe come into existence is that far removed from the the imagination or comprehension of man as to be totally unfathomable.

 

Such a being, if one exists, would regard humanity as less than we regard insects.

 

The difference in intellect between Albert Einstein and an Ant is miniscule compared to the difference in intellect between Einstein and a Creator.

 

The Creator made Einstein.

 

I do not think there will be an afterlife, certainly not one sitting around discussing philosophy with the Creator.

 

What possible reason would there be for this Creator to meet up with us? It already knows all about us, what's the point?

 

Some form of reincarnation is the best we can hope for in the afterlife stakes in my opinion.

 

None of which precludes a Creator/God.

 

I'm still waiting for some non believer to explain to me precisely where the first thought came from.

 

I'm fully prepared to accept the evidence as and when someone provides some.

 

Thus far, accepting that no one actually knows then the logical position is to reserve judgement either way it seems the sensible way to go.

[RootsBooster]

I think you are fully aware what belief means and the point is whether one can be undecided, believe or not believe in God.

Yes, I know what belief means, I asked what you think it means.

[harvey19]

Nobody's claiming that you can't be undecided, you're denying that being undecided means that you don't have a belief yet.

Your stance has been that there can not be such a category as undecided and therefore this debate is going to go round in circles so I will say goodnight.

[SnailyBoy]

No not at all, it only means that you lack any kind of ability to think outside standard parameters, you are seemingly devoid of imagination and the ability to think without the constraints imposed on you by your obsession.

 

For what it's worth, this is what I think about the possible existence of a Creator.

 

No earthly religion has the truth. A Creator that made the Universe come into existence is that far removed from the the imagination or comprehension of man as to be totally unfathomable.

 

Such a being, if one exists, would regard humanity as less than we regard insects.

 

The difference in intellect between Albert Einstein and an Ant is miniscule compared to the difference in intellect between Einstein and a Creator.

 

The Creator made Einstein.

 

I do not think there will be an afterlife, certainly not one sitting around discussing philosophy with the Creator.

 

What possible reason would there be for this Creator to meet up with us? It already knows all about us, what's the point?

 

Some form of reincarnation is the best we can hope for in the afterlife stakes in my opinion.

 

None of which precludes a Creator/God.

 

I'm still waiting for some non believer to explain to me precisely where the first thought came from.

 

I'm fully prepared to accept the evidence as and when someone provides some.

 

Thus far, accepting that no one actually knows then the logical position is to reserve judgement either way it seems the sensible way to go.

 

You're waiting for a non-believer to explain precisely where the first thought came from?

 

So what evidence about this first thought would you accept, how about detailed explanation of the evolution of the brain?

 

Would that do it, or would it have to be more precise?

 

 

PS. It appears you're skating very close to Deism.

Edited January 26, 2015 by SnailyBoy

[RootsBooster]

Your stance has been that there can not be such a category as undecided and therefore this debate is going to go round in circles so I will say goodnight.

Not true at all.

My stance all along has been that undecided means that you are without belief.

 

What exactly do you think the word 'belief' means?

[teeny]

Why would family come first?

 

Because If I was dying and knew it, I'd want to see them one more time.

 

My mum died 25 years ago from breast cancer in Ashgate hospice , her priorities were to be ready to meet God , to know that her family were prepared for her to go , there was a lovely lady in the next bed who was an atheist she said she had never seen such peace in somebody dying as that she saw in my mum , when my mum went in to Ashgate the first thing she asked for was to see the pastor of the church I was attending , he spent time with her and myself , she gained her peace from prayer , going back to lady in the next bed she asked how she could have peace like that , and she said you know I have been wrong all these years , how can God accept me ? We told her of Gods love for his people , she passed peacefully !

Until you are faced with death Snailboy you cannot say how you will feel ! Or react also illness can make us very indifferent to what has passed in life !

[mjw47]

You're waiting for a non-believer to explain precisely where the first thought came from?

 

So what evidence about this first thought would you accept, how about detailed explanation of the evolution of the brain?

 

Would that do it, or would it have to be more precise?

 

No my little mollusc, I am not waiting for a non believer to explain.

 

I would have taken an explanation from Georges LeMaitre, physicist and the originator of 'The Big Bang' theory, and also a Catholic Priest.

 

But if you are going to propound non believe in a Creator, you need to come up with some serious explanations for the origination of things.

 

It would appear that you Atheists are not exactly competent in that department.

 

No,I don't want to know about the evolution of the Brain, once something exists it can change and evolve.

 

What I want to know is how it came to exist in the first place.

 

What caused the change from a chemical soup to cognisance?

 

Where did the very first thought come from and why?

 

Incidentally this article was written by an Atheist and I agree entirely with the sentiment.

 

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fbrendanoneill2%2F100230985%2Fhow-atheists-became-the-most-colossally-smug-and-annoying-people-on-the-planet%2F&ei=FMTGVM2-GOWM7Ab41IGgDw&usg=AFQjCNFvTutc4hl_vxsoE6T2-YQC0CnV_A&cad=rja

[SnailyBoy]

My mum died 25 years ago from breast cancer in Ashgate hospice , her priorities were to be ready to meet God , to know that her family were prepared for her to go , there was a lovely lady in the next bed who was an atheist she said she had never seen such peace in somebody dying as that she saw in my mum , when my mum went in to Ashgate the first thing she asked for was to see the pastor of the church I was attending , he spent time with her and myself , she gained her peace from prayer , going back to lady in the next bed she asked how she could have peace like that , and she said you know I have been wrong all these years , how can God accept me ? We told her of Gods love for his people , she passed peacefully !

Until you are faced with death Snailboy you cannot say how you will feel ! Or react also illness can make us very indifferent to what has passed in life !

 

You're right, I can't say for sure how I'd feel.

 

However, suddenly believing in a god, no thanks.

 

I prefer the reality that we're all star dust.

 

---------- Post added 26-01-2015 at 22:57 ----------

 

No my little mollusc, I am not waiting for a non believer to explain.

 

I would have taken an explanation from Georges LeMaitre, physicist and the originator of 'The Big Bang' theory, and also a Catholic Priest.

 

But if you are going to propound non believe in a Creator, you need to come up with some serious explanations for the origination of things.

 

It would appear that you Atheists are not exactly competent in that department.

 

No,I don't want to know about the evolution of the Brain, once something exists it can change and evolve.

 

What I want to know is how it came to exist in the first place.

 

What caused the change from a chemical soup to cognisance?

 

Where did the very first thought come from and why?

 

Incidentally this article was written by an Atheist and I agree entirely with the sentiment.

 

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fbrendanoneill2%2F100230985%2Fhow-atheists-became-the-most-colossally-smug-and-annoying-people-on-the-planet%2F&ei=FMTGVM2-GOWM7Ab41IGgDw&usg=AFQjCNFvTutc4hl_vxsoE6T2-YQC0CnV_A&cad=rja

 

I'm still waiting for some non believer to explain to me precisely where the first thought came from.

 

 

So this is just boiling down to logical fallacies

 

Argument from incredulity + argument from ignorance.

 

Mixed vigorously with God (Creator) of the Gaps.

Edited January 26, 2015 by SnailyBoy